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Trials
Jul 5, 2017 15:59:29 GMT
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Jul 5, 2017 15:59:29 GMT
TRIALS
Trials starts with a discussion day of ten minutes. Afterwards, everyone gets a “Trial Day”, where only they can be lynched. The Mafia decides this order after the Discussion stage. Each day takes 5 minutes. The town has to decide whether to lynch them, or whether to spare them (No Lynch). There are no nights. Plurality, no extensions and a tie between lynch and no lynch means lynch. You can NL to end the first day. Once everyone has had a Trial Day, everyone gets another one, in an order chosen by the mafia. If any one mafia survives their Trial Day in the second round, they win and the game ends. If a town survives their Trial Day, they will be confirmed town. If there are more remaining confirmed town members than mafia members, town wins the game.
Discuss strategies in Trials, your opinion on it, or whatever. Warning: Trials will take a relatively long time, especially with a large amount of players.
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aknolan
Bodyguard
Aknolan the Unoriginal
Posts: 165
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Trials
Jul 5, 2017 18:39:44 GMT
Post by aknolan on Jul 5, 2017 18:39:44 GMT
Trial is pretty great because I actually have a chance to live for more than 1 day for once. It's also just a lot of fun (and very long). As far as strategies go, when round 2 comes around lynch literally everyone you do not trust 100%.
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Post by qtball on Jul 8, 2017 20:43:39 GMT
Love this theme <3 great work as usual Snaquaza. And don't worry guys, the theme is fixed so you can't lost to rng like I did ;3 love you snaq
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Post by Javelinlover on Jul 12, 2017 5:51:06 GMT
I've actually only played this theme once, but I highly commend it, due to the high intensity questioning that can occur during the judging phase. It's a good way for players to learn how to pressure people and how to deal with pressure. However, I would suggest adding a discussion phase between the 1st and 2nd rounds, just for town to catch their bearings.
Tips and Tricks (again, I've only played this once so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯; also these are all from the perspective of town because that's what I played) - first off, don't tunnel. in this theme, it's especially detrimental to town, because it gives the Mafia an easy cover to hide behind during their judgement day. try to consider every person during their day. however, this doesn't mean you should stop pressuring once the person's day is over. if you notice someone being scummy, call them out on it.
- post scumreads often, so people can assess your progression. post townreads, too. in fact, it's a good idea to make a readspost every 2 or 3 days. if you're citing someone as an extreme town or an extreme scum, please be prepared to have quotes to explain why you read them that way.
- building off the last point, this is something people should adopt in general. read back. reading back gives you a second look at messages you may have missed while typing. reading back lets you see how people interacted with others. did a person's read change drastically for no apparent reason? question them on it. a flipped scum interacts with everyone but that person? keep an eye on that person.
- please don't lurk (again, a general request). lurking makes you hard to read, because of the lack of information. you waste a town mislynch if you lurk.
Altogether, it seems like a theme that really promotes scumhunting. Would really like longer phases but I understand that not everyone is willing to play a 2 hour game. I feel like better scumhunting will occur with longer phases, but it's up to host discretion.
tl;dr good for people who would like to get better at scumhunting
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Trials
Jul 12, 2017 12:24:51 GMT
Post by Fenrir on Jul 12, 2017 12:24:51 GMT
- building off the last point, this is something people should adopt in general. READ BACK. reading back gives you a second look at messages you may have missed while typing. reading back lets you see how people interacted with others. did a person's read change drastically for no apparent reason? question them on it. a flipped scum interacts with everyone but that person? keep an eye on that person. Say it louder for those in the back.
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Post by phoenix on Jul 13, 2017 17:55:38 GMT
EVs on all not completely unreasonable(note: this doesn't mean you SHOULD) 7p+ setups (percentage= chance that town wins)(rounded to tenths)
2v5 - 47.6% 2v6 - 53.6% 3v7 - 46.7% 3v8 - 50.1% 3v9 - 54.5% 4v9 - 46.2% 4v10 - 49.5% 4v11 - 52.4% 4v12 - 55% 5v12 - 48.5% 5v13 - 51.0% 5v14 - 53.2% 6v14 - 47.9% 6v15 - 50%
tl;dr every playercount from 7p-20p EXCEPT 9p has a reasonable(reasonable designed as .55 >= EV >= .45; i'd argue .4 to .5 is a better range personally but this seemed more uncontroversial; all that adds is 6p(2v4) anyway
7/8p should have 2 scum, 10-12p should have 3 scum, 13-16p should have 4 scum, 17-19p should have 5 scum, and 20p should have 6 scum
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Post by phoenix on Jul 16, 2017 17:59:49 GMT
some more numbers
2v4 - 40% 3v5 - 35.7% 3v6 - 41.7% 4v7 - 38.2% 4v8 - 42.4% 5v9 - 39.6% 5v10 - 42.9% 5v11 - 45.8% 6v10 - 37.5% 6v11 - 40.4% 6v12 - 43.1% 6v13 - 45.6%
due to the nature of trials being helpful to town in outperforming EV + mountainous generally having low town ev in the first place these are all very reasonable options
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 21:07:49 GMT
This has been long overdued but I'd like to put my 2-cents as to why Trials is a fantastic theme. Only reason I haven't done this yet is because I wanted to see the theme hosted a little more and get to play it more before I gave my thoughts on it (because at the time when I wanted to do this I had only played once and that was during official when I sub'd very late into the game) now that I've played it alot more and have even gotten to host it myself so I understand the theme from all three fronts (Town, Mafia, and Host) I can really go into why i like this theme. This Game in general is all about being able to scumread, and any theme that promotes more scum hunting is good in my book. As jav said you cant just go in tunnel/lurk and expect the rest of town to carry you. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE that is Town should be actively contributing giving reads and trying to look for scum. The Reads of Mafia and Town are the single most important thing besides flips because they give you info to look back on and think about. If someone just flipped Mafia to lynch, as jav said READ BACK, see who their reads are who in their reads has had a trial day already and who hasn't. Work with the town to decide who is Town. Always have a list of reads that town can refer to. I don't have too much more to say about town playing this game because I've only played twice but that's what you should be mostly doing. Now for Mafia things get alot more interesting. Mafia should do whatever it can to gain Town Cred and keep it but not to the point where it's super obvious that you are only doing what you are doing to look good in the eyes of town. Normally I'd be against staged bussing (blame OM Room and his horrible modexe busses :^) however here I think is a theme where bussing really shines IF ITS DONE RIGHT. Most players just push on flawed reasoning and end up getting a partner lynched, which is very very bad for 2 reasons. 1) In a game of classic9 for example you will probably be up against 4 Townies and 1 Werewolf (assuming hes still around) and depending on what town has left, you not only helped town get rid of a scum, you just put yourself in an even worse position, and 2) As I've said before people often push with very very terrible logic, and if the logic is super weak they'll end up being the next person to flip after their scum partner just died. Here however i feel this is a great theme for bussing and that it should be utilied to the fullest because this is a theme less about Decieving Town and more about Gaining their trust. You want to do both of course, but gaining town's trust in this theme is the single most important thing. I say this because only One of you needs to get the no lynch in order to win, so the quicker you gain momentum and earn towns trust the better you have at winning. If one of you were to bus the other (assuming it doesn't look very ver bad and unnoticable) and start earning the town's trust to get the nl both of you would win in the long run so its good to talk to you partner earlier before either of your trial days start up to start discussing plans of bussing Because I was not in for most of the game, I'd like qtball to go into more details about how he did during the very first game of Trials. He was a universal town read among everyone and only lost to pure RNG, so he can shed so light better than I can on what scum should be doing to stay in the pool of good people. Plan to update more as I get more time to play/host/watch the theme.
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Trials
Jul 27, 2017 18:21:21 GMT
Post by clc ironic on Jul 27, 2017 18:21:21 GMT
No offense to Trials (it's a great theme), but it's based off ALOT of RNG; for example, if Mafia is very last then all the town could literally have been destroyed before it gets to their turn to be tried for, and it is extremely bad for scum if Mafia is 1st/2nd. However, I find the best strategy is to literally make reasonable reads, bus your partner for legitimate reasons, and during the second phase go 1st since most people think the scum would be hesitant to put themselves out 1st. There's really no "strategy" involved in this game, it's mainly just "Ok X did you lynch Mafia? No? @l X".
This is more or less "Did your lynch seem fair on the Mafia". On the forums where the players are better, it seems like this is a great way to test yourself and to see how good you are at catching busses, but on PS where town is literally awful, this just is turbo, turbo, turbo. In conclusion, Trials is not very noob oriented, but is a great theme for skilled players.
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Trials
Jul 28, 2017 21:18:36 GMT
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Jul 28, 2017 21:18:36 GMT
No offense to Trials (it's a great theme), but it's based off ALOT of RNG; for example, if Mafia is very last then all the town could literally have been destroyed before it gets to their turn to be tried for, and it is extremely bad for scum if Mafia is 1st/2nd. However, I find the best strategy is to literally make reasonable reads, bus your partner for legitimate reasons, and during the second phase go 1st since most people think the scum would be hesitant to put themselves out 1st. There's really no "strategy" involved in this game, it's mainly just "Ok X did you lynch Mafia? No? @l X". This is more or less "Did your lynch seem fair on the Mafia". On the forums where the players are better, it seems like this is a great way to test yourself and to see how good you are at catching busses, but on PS where town is literally awful, this just is turbo, turbo, turbo. In conclusion, Trials is not very noob oriented, but is a great theme for skilled players. "The Mafia decides this order after the Discussion stage."
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Trials
Jul 30, 2017 12:19:39 GMT
Post by clc ironic on Jul 30, 2017 12:19:39 GMT
No offense to Trials (it's a great theme), but it's based off ALOT of RNG; for example, if Mafia is very last then all the town could literally have been destroyed before it gets to their turn to be tried for, and it is extremely bad for scum if Mafia is 1st/2nd. However, I find the best strategy is to literally make reasonable reads, bus your partner for legitimate reasons, and during the second phase go 1st since most people think the scum would be hesitant to put themselves out 1st. There's really no "strategy" involved in this game, it's mainly just "Ok X did you lynch Mafia? No? @l X". This is more or less "Did your lynch seem fair on the Mafia". On the forums where the players are better, it seems like this is a great way to test yourself and to see how good you are at catching busses, but on PS where town is literally awful, this just is turbo, turbo, turbo. In conclusion, Trials is not very noob oriented, but is a great theme for skilled players. "The Mafia decides this order after the Discussion stage." I know, but most people turbo before the Discussion stage anyways lul
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Trials
Jul 30, 2017 15:19:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by Fenrir on Jul 30, 2017 15:19:24 GMT
I mean, whose fault is that?
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Trials
Aug 8, 2017 16:39:58 GMT
Post by clc ironic on Aug 8, 2017 16:39:58 GMT
Great, now Mafia gets to pick the order of the First Round of trials too...(changed 8/7/17 iirc). This was apparently due to the complaints of "RNG" surrounding Trials.
Now, the game is much more bland in my opinion. Sure, there's no RNG anymore, and wifom, but it seems like everyone now gets past to the second round and everyone is much more hesitant. It seems just like a very overpowered Vanilla to me now.
This is similar to Vanilla because (lets use 7p setup, 2v5) now since Mafia gets to pick, it's not different from regular Vanilla except that as long as mafia survives its 2nd trial, it wins (no matter how many town are left)...this is, in my opinion, unbalanced. Of course theres different wifom strategies; for example, put mafia first and last, or mafia in the middle, or mafia at very last etc. etc.
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Trials
Aug 8, 2017 16:44:21 GMT
Post by clc ironic on Aug 8, 2017 16:44:21 GMT
6p: 1v5 7p: 2v5 8p: 2v6 9p: 2v7 10p: 2v8 11p: 3v8 12p: 3v9 13p: 3v10 14p: 3v11 15p: 4v11 (seems the most fair based on this new change)
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Trials
Jun 27, 2018 8:06:29 GMT
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Jun 27, 2018 8:06:29 GMT
How would people feel about a Forum Trials game? I think it could be interesting in a more drawn out format.
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Trials
Jun 27, 2018 8:12:16 GMT
Post by gigabytetroubadour on Jun 27, 2018 8:12:16 GMT
how long would the days last? i'd like to try out a more Scumhunty setup on here so im down
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Trials
Jun 27, 2018 8:48:49 GMT
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Jun 27, 2018 8:48:49 GMT
how long would the days last? i'd like to try out a more Scumhunty setup on here so im down I'm not sure. Maybe 3 days. I saw your post about longer days which I found interesting, so if you have a good argument to make them longer feel free to say so. However, Trials will take a lot of days (usually more than the amount of players), so the time the entire game would take is worth taking into account. Fun Fact: On PS this is actually played with 5 minute deadlines.
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