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Post by Alexander489 on Feb 1, 2021 19:24:28 GMT
dont see how i couldve done anything besides filler out of my ass, most of the bickering happening rn seems to be pointless 8.5.7 Don't necessarily disagree with the start of the game, but we have to start something and I firmly believe in that you can actually get great reads just off people's early game behavior and reactions and pressures when they're not paying as much attention yet (though of course this doesn't disregard that later reads may have more substance and depth, but also because they can continue on where day 1 reads left) So I'll ask you two questions to get started: - Multiple people have picked on / argued about OMs post (that was the response to AZs analysis of scorrch)
- In case you feel like that isn't really useful, when do you feel like you can start making reads? Why does you not really doing anything help with that so far
 . After all, we're a good way into day 1 at this point already
------------- for my last post, i want to add: i understand that OM wants to put everything under a microscope. I still don't think that AZs post was really disregarding scorrch, as (like quo said) the last bullet point indicated it didn't really matter (+ it was more of a mechanical analysis regardless) exactly why i can actually make reads rn. theres actually shit to talk about. About your whole, scorch/om/az post discussion, its p obvious scorch did not know we were voting for reward,and he rolled for the vote, as a meme. so its not really a disgregard in a way, but just a haha funny moment that I think OM overanalyzed. I do think however, that AZ is probably at the top of my sr list. By sitting back and watching for the first 12 hours or so, when nothing happens, it allows me to watch interactions without being directly involved, and call out people like you who hl me, when you know i will eventually come around and play. Forum games aren't my thing but im defeinitely willing to adapt to whatever playstyle you want. 8.5.7 |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 19:29:30 GMT
Scum, in any and all form, wants to be the one more in control of the vote, and discrediting, no matter how minor is, is a good way to do that - how is this not "normal scum play", as you put it? It's a post that aims to position AZ into a good corner with a little analysis and a dig at another person - scum wants to do that more than town would want to. Logically, it's a deviation from something I would see in a town mindset, therefore it could possibly be a scum mindset, therefore it merits (merited) exploration because pressuring slots and generating content is the move in day 1. I don't see why you're calling it "twisted". I get your point. It was something that could be from a scum pov. However, do you think that you saying "complete disregard" of scorrch wasn't a bit of an overreaction of the point? Furthermore, this may be a bit meta, but how do you feel about how big this discussion has gotten & how you've gotten attacked over it? Do you think some of the judgments regarding your post come off as more disingenious than others? There was definitely a degree of exaggeration for content. The only post I consider "attacking" is quojova's latest post in the contention, but even then it feels like a post of exasperation rather than disingeniousness. On the other hand, AZ's response felt super passive and almost like they gave up the point bc that's exactly what they were doing. For your response to my post, I def agree with this part To reiterate my earlier question, and it also relates to what I said earlier in this post: to what degree did you overreact on purpose to generate discussion? Sentiments the same, the wording was done for controversy's sake. |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 19:30:23 GMT
Don't necessarily disagree with the start of the game, but we have to start something and I firmly believe in that you can actually get great reads just off people's early game behavior and reactions and pressures when they're not paying as much attention yet (though of course this doesn't disregard that later reads may have more substance and depth, but also because they can continue on where day 1 reads left) So I'll ask you two questions to get started: - Multiple people have picked on / argued about OMs post (that was the response to AZs analysis of scorrch)
- In case you feel like that isn't really useful, when do you feel like you can start making reads? Why does you not really doing anything help with that so far . After all, we're a good way into day 1 at this point already
------------- for my last post, i want to add: i understand that OM wants to put everything under a microscope. I still don't think that AZs post was really disregarding scorrch, as (like quo said) the last bullet point indicated it didn't really matter (+ it was more of a mechanical analysis regardless) exactly why i can actually make reads rn. theres actually shit to talk about. About your whole, scorch/om/az post discussion, its p obvious scorch did not know we were voting for reward,and he rolled for the vote, as a meme. so its not really a disgregard in a way, but just a haha funny moment that I think OM overanalyzed. I do think however, that AZ is probably at the top of my sr list. By sitting back and watching for the first 12 hours or so, when nothing happens, it allows me to watch interactions without being directly involved, and call out people like you who hl me, when you know i will eventually come around and play. Forum games aren't my thing but im defeinitely willing to adapt to whatever playstyle you want. 8.5.7 Calling the Alex / Lucas scumteam rfn I want AWARDS when its revealed |
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Feb 1, 2021 19:31:20 GMT
Don't necessarily disagree with the start of the game, but we have to start something and I firmly believe in that you can actually get great reads just off people's early game behavior and reactions and pressures when they're not paying as much attention yet (though of course this doesn't disregard that later reads may have more substance and depth, but also because they can continue on where day 1 reads left) So I'll ask you two questions to get started: - Multiple people have picked on / argued about OMs post (that was the response to AZs analysis of scorrch)
- In case you feel like that isn't really useful, when do you feel like you can start making reads? Why does you not really doing anything help with that so far . After all, we're a good way into day 1 at this point already
------------- for my last post, i want to add: i understand that OM wants to put everything under a microscope. I still don't think that AZs post was really disregarding scorrch, as (like quo said) the last bullet point indicated it didn't really matter (+ it was more of a mechanical analysis regardless) exactly why i can actually make reads rn. theres actually shit to talk about. About your whole, scorch/om/az post discussion, its p obvious scorch did not know we were voting for reward,and he rolled for the vote, as a meme. so its not really a disgregard in a way, but just a haha funny moment that I think OM overanalyzed. I do think however, that AZ is probably at the top of my sr list. By sitting back and watching for the first 12 hours or so, when nothing happens, it allows me to watch interactions without being directly involved, and call out people like you who hl me, when you know i will eventually come around and play. Forum games aren't my thing but im defeinitely willing to adapt to whatever playstyle you want. 8.5.7 OFFTOPIC: overall playstyle discussion w/ alex / what i find good and not good to do in a general case (not this specific game necessarily), not analysing his post per se (re: prompting him to play) --------------------- Oh, don't worry, I don't really care about your playstyle all too much (though if it's lurking all game I'll still lynch you for it). Would def not want you to just have the same playstyle as me. But I'm glad you feel like you can make reads now, as it kinda felt to me as if you still felt like you couldn't after the argument took place, which I woulda found strange. Otherwise, being more observative is def fine*. I'm excited to see what you have to say w/ the game otherwise, and esp about the reasons you SR AZ right now (I don't even have clear SRs yet, so def curious) and I'd like to hear more  *I may have disregarded this a bit in my post. Some people always need to start the game, but if this happens it can be good to take an outsider's role sometimes. I guess that's why adapting can be very important, to switch up playstyles. |
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Post by Alexander489 on Feb 1, 2021 19:34:34 GMT
exactly why i can actually make reads rn. theres actually shit to talk about. About your whole, scorch/om/az post discussion, its p obvious scorch did not know we were voting for reward,and he rolled for the vote, as a meme. so its not really a disgregard in a way, but just a haha funny moment that I think OM overanalyzed. I do think however, that AZ is probably at the top of my sr list. By sitting back and watching for the first 12 hours or so, when nothing happens, it allows me to watch interactions without being directly involved, and call out people like you who hl me, when you know i will eventually come around and play. Forum games aren't my thing but im defeinitely willing to adapt to whatever playstyle you want. 8.5.7 Calling the Alex / Lucas scumteam rfn I want AWARDS when its revealed  8.5.7 |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 19:37:50 GMT
Calling the Alex / Lucas scumteam rfn I want AWARDS when its revealed 8.5.7  |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 19:41:05 GMT
I don't even know how you can hold that opinion Reposting: "Personally when it comes to townvoting, lukewarm rvs is honestly better
Because honestly unlike scumvoting, you can't hold a gun against someone's head and hold them under intense pressure
Lukewarm rvs instead allows you to give a scum a fake sense of security and allow town to catch them off guard
..although I highly doubt that question mark had thought about this before making the rvs"The first three lines are about this "lukewarm" tangent which as we had previously established came out of a misunderstanding and had no actual relevance to the game. Understanding that, the fourth line concedes that the previous three lines of analysis are not particularly relevant to the game as it is unlikely that scorr considered such a random, hardly relevant aspect of a post "it goes to paint scorr as dumber as he is, therefore less so of someone who should be listened to down the line." Who exactly would look at this and think to themselves: "By saying he wouldn't have considered the 'lukewarm-ness' of his rvs vote I'm harmed his credibility and progressed my scum win condition! Now perhaps less people will pay attention to him in the future!" That's so clearly not normal scum play. I have to question your motivations for pushing forward this twisted reading of az's post and this logic Scum, in any and all form, wants to be the one more in control of the vote, and discrediting, no matter how minor is, is a good way to do that - how is this not "normal scum play", as you put it? It's a post that aims to position AZ into a good corner with a little analysis and a dig at another person - scum wants to do that more than town would want to. Logically, it's a deviation from something I would see in a town mindset, therefore it could possibly be a scum mindset, therefore it merits (merited) exploration because pressuring slots and generating content is the move in day 1. I don't see why you're calling it "twisted". So to be clear I see two issues here: One is a plain disagreement on the meaning of az's post. Discrediting scorr is just not a component of the post and by remarking that scorr had not "thought about this before making the rvs", az was not commenting on the quality of az as a player but the relevance of his tangent on rvs "lukewarm-ness" to the thread. This to me is basically unarguable. The other is more contestable, and admittedly I made this unclear: the "twisted" was a bit aggressive and refers to the reading of the post, the first problem, but not the second. To me this train of thought doesn't make sense; No player is going to look back at this post from AZ and start to think less of scorr as a result. It just vastly overestimates the significance of this one post on the mentality of the town. I will admit that this problem is heavily dependent on our disagreement of the first. |
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Post by Alexander489 on Feb 1, 2021 19:43:37 GMT
exactly why i can actually make reads rn. theres actually shit to talk about. About your whole, scorch/om/az post discussion, its p obvious scorch did not know we were voting for reward,and he rolled for the vote, as a meme. so its not really a disgregard in a way, but just a haha funny moment that I think OM overanalyzed. I do think however, that AZ is probably at the top of my sr list. By sitting back and watching for the first 12 hours or so, when nothing happens, it allows me to watch interactions without being directly involved, and call out people like you who hl me, when you know i will eventually come around and play. Forum games aren't my thing but im defeinitely willing to adapt to whatever playstyle you want. 8.5.7 OFFTOPIC: overall playstyle discussion w/ alex / what i find good and not good to do in a general case (not this specific game necessarily), not analysing his post per se (re: prompting him to play) --------------------- Oh, don't worry, I don't really care about your playstyle all too much (though if it's lurking all game I'll still lynch you for it). Would def not want you to just have the same playstyle as me. But I'm glad you feel like you can make reads now, as it kinda felt to me as if you still felt like you couldn't after the argument took place, which I woulda found strange. Otherwise, being more observative is def fine*. I'm excited to see what you have to say w/ the game otherwise, and esp about the reasons you SR AZ right now (I don't even have clear SRs yet, so def curious) and I'd like to hear more *I may have disregarded this a bit in my post. Some people always need to start the game, but if this happens it can be good to take an outsider's role sometimes. I guess that's why adapting can be very important, to switch up playstyles. going to analyze all of their posts for u ok. 1. started the game off by saying hi to quojova, ok seems normal yes yes very good. says they have been town in all their games together, weird but i respect it. 2. the whole post about scorch, no idea what the fuck a lukewarm rvs is but, then throws in a random analogy that i still dont understand the point of, then some more random bs about lukewarm rvs thats just un-needed filler content. and there u have a useless post that has no meaning that started all sorts of contoversy. 3. thats just how scorch does his rvs, by literally announcing it, maybe this is what OM meant by disregarding the way he plays? but im not sure, brushes the post off until later. 4. responds to OM's criticism by criticizing scorchs playstyle, interesting tactic. useless strat talk blah blah blah 5. even AZ admits this discussion is terrible. 6. what the fuck 7. apologizes to om for literally who knows what here we are, and theres my read. just a lot of fake stuff to me, that really stands out as trying to fill the void by just forcefully making reads. hard to describe. 8.5.7 |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 19:45:38 GMT
Actually this is unfair of me, run me through the logic here quojova It is to me just somewhat incredible that you read az's post in the way you did Which creates the possibility that you did not in fact read that post in that way I thought about what your motivations might be for doing so as either alignment and that was the only one that seemed to make any sense Again, it is not really raising your scumchance for me very much at all right now as the burden of proof for a scumpair argument is very high when neither potential partner has yet flipped |
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Post by Alexander489 on Feb 1, 2021 19:46:25 GMT
Actually this is unfair of me, run me through the logic here quojova It is to me just somewhat incredible that you read az's post in the way you did Which creates the possibility that you did not in fact read that post in that way I thought about what your motivations might be for doing so as either alignment and that was the only one that seemed to make any sense Again, it is not really raising your scumchance for me very much at all right now as the burden of proof for a scumpair argument is very high when neither potential partner has yet flipped h u h ? 8.5.7 |
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Post by Alexander489 on Feb 1, 2021 19:46:56 GMT
It is to me just somewhat incredible that you read az's post in the way you did Which creates the possibility that you did not in fact read that post in that way I thought about what your motivations might be for doing so as either alignment and that was the only one that seemed to make any sense Again, it is not really raising your scumchance for me very much at all right now as the burden of proof for a scumpair argument is very high when neither potential partner has yet flipped h u h ? 8.5.7 no idea how you can say this already without AZ flipping. 8.5.7 |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 19:51:06 GMT
Actually this is unfair of me, run me through the logic here quojova It is to me just somewhat incredible that you read az's post in the way you did Which creates the possibility that you did not in fact read that post in that way I thought about what your motivations might be for doing so as either alignment and that was the only one that seemed to make any sense Again, it is not really raising your scumchance for me very much at all right now as the burden of proof for a scumpair argument is very high when neither potential partner has yet flipped az's exasperation factored into the idea too, because it seems like he has little intention to resolve the tension between you and him in a way that favors him, which would be logically sensible in an SvS scenario but not really any other. Of course the more likely emotional option is that he was actually just exasperated but it is a component of the theory. |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 19:51:51 GMT
no idea how you can say this already without AZ flipping. 8.5.7 which is why I'm saying it doesn't even really matter until one of them flips |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 19:52:27 GMT
Scum, in any and all form, wants to be the one more in control of the vote, and discrediting, no matter how minor is, is a good way to do that - how is this not "normal scum play", as you put it? It's a post that aims to position AZ into a good corner with a little analysis and a dig at another person - scum wants to do that more than town would want to. Logically, it's a deviation from something I would see in a town mindset, therefore it could possibly be a scum mindset, therefore it merits (merited) exploration because pressuring slots and generating content is the move in day 1. I don't see why you're calling it "twisted". So to be clear I see two issues here: One is a plain disagreement on the meaning of az's post. Discrediting scorr is just not a component of the post and by remarking that scorr had not "thought about this before making the rvs", az was not commenting on the quality of az as a player ?_? but the relevance of his tangent on rvs "lukewarm-ness" to the thread. This to me is basically unarguable. How is this unarguable, you've just put your opinion out? The other is more contestable, and admittedly I made this unclear: the "twisted" was a bit aggressive and refers to the reading of the post, the first problem, but not the second. To me this train of thought doesn't make sense; No player is going to look back at this post from AZ and start to think less of scorr as a result. It just vastly overestimates the significance of this one post on the mentality of the town. I will admit that this problem is heavily dependent on our disagreement of the first. When one makes an uncontested point - it's usually taken as fact, therefore by insinuating scorr isn't thinking about his first post, one might reasonably assume scorr isn't thinking before he posts and therefore begin to disregard his points in favour of others. It's usually an unconscious thing and I, of course, admit this is overanalysis, but it's definitely there. Personally don't think we can get any further pushing this point - if you want to keep going for it I'll answer, but atm I've gotten everything I wanted from this |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 19:55:12 GMT
Actually this is unfair of me, run me through the logic here quojova It is to me just somewhat incredible that you read az's post in the way you did Which creates the possibility that you did not in fact read that post in that way I thought about what your motivations might be for doing so as either alignment and that was the only one that seemed to make any sense Again, it is not really raising your scumchance for me very much at all right now as the burden of proof for a scumpair argument is very high when neither potential partner has yet flipped All I'm getting from this is you simply did not think hard enough bc I do this in every game I'm town >  |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 19:56:56 GMT
So to be clear I see two issues here: One is a plain disagreement on the meaning of az's post. Discrediting scorr is just not a component of the post and by remarking that scorr had not "thought about this before making the rvs", az was not commenting on the quality of az as a player ?_? but the relevance of his tangent on rvs "lukewarm-ness" to the thread. This to me is basically unarguable. How is this unarguable, you've just put your opinion out? The other is more contestable, and admittedly I made this unclear: the "twisted" was a bit aggressive and refers to the reading of the post, the first problem, but not the second. To me this train of thought doesn't make sense; No player is going to look back at this post from AZ and start to think less of scorr as a result. It just vastly overestimates the significance of this one post on the mentality of the town. I will admit that this problem is heavily dependent on our disagreement of the first. When one makes an uncontested point - it's usually taken as fact, therefore by insinuating scorr isn't thinking about his first post, one might reasonably assume scorr isn't thinking before he posts and therefore begin to disregard his points in favour of others. It's usually an unconscious thing and I, of course, admit this is overanalysis, but it's definitely there. Personally don't think we can get any further pushing this point - if you want to keep going for it I'll answer, but atm I've gotten everything I wanted from this I have basically nothing else to add we just disagree on the syntactical expression of the post |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 19:58:15 GMT
It is to me just somewhat incredible that you read az's post in the way you did Which creates the possibility that you did not in fact read that post in that way I thought about what your motivations might be for doing so as either alignment and that was the only one that seemed to make any sense Again, it is not really raising your scumchance for me very much at all right now as the burden of proof for a scumpair argument is very high when neither potential partner has yet flipped All I'm getting from this is you simply did not think hard enough bc I do this in every game I'm town > do what in every game you're town? |
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Feb 1, 2021 20:02:25 GMT
playermeta ew quojova what do you think about this "reward" mechanic? Do you think it'd make sense at all to swap someone today? |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 20:04:31 GMT
All I'm getting from this is you simply did not think hard enough bc I do this in every game I'm town > do what in every game you're town? Overanalyze d1 early posts to make reads |
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Post by OM~! on Feb 1, 2021 20:05:12 GMT
playermeta ew quojova what do you think about this "reward" mechanic? Do you think it'd make sense at all to swap someone today? hey hey it's a playermeta defense not a playermeta read get off my back old man |
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Feb 1, 2021 20:05:59 GMT
do what in every game you're town? Overanalyze d1 early posts to make reads How'd you overanalyze Ani, so far? for comparison check a few posts back, would like to see you compare and contrast with that opinion ( after formulating your own, preferably) |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 20:08:40 GMT
playermeta ew quojova what do you think about this "reward" mechanic? Do you think it'd make sense at all to swap someone today? I have literally no idea what I'd do with a swap but it sounds so much more interesting than an rb that I'd probably do it at the cost of slight optimal play for fun admittedly that might make me a bad candidate |
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Post by quojova on Feb 1, 2021 20:11:06 GMT
do what in every game you're town? Overanalyze d1 early posts to make reads I'm not charging you with overanalysis; genuine overanalysis that had a low priority in actually communicating that analysis effectively is pretty much why I tled az |
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Feb 1, 2021 20:17:19 GMT
wishing i was the museum concierge rn
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Feb 1, 2021 20:21:21 GMT
As a final thing, would it be a benefit to send someone into the past right now? I'm not sure, as it relieves them from pressure while I don't know if I feel comfortable just saying anyone should be saved the pressure right now, that's when the real action starts. We could have them swap with a specific person, but: A) We get someone they/we as a group TR -> does that really help us, exchanging a probable TR for a TR. Could it? (Though maybe their thread will give information about good swaps rolewise, possibly) B) We get someone scummy -> we alleviate pressure from this group, which I'm not necessarily sure is a good idea for the first vote. C) We get someone null -> Why? Would like to hear it if anyone thinks it'd be a good idea to swap tonight, and if so what option / why / something different? Roleblock should always be nice, we'll get info from it and I don't think it should even matter that much who it is. Of course it's better for town to get it, but we can analyse the decision + potentially what happened due to it just as much whoever gets it I think (esp if something interesting happens). -Time Travel will have lasting effects on the Space-Time Continuum. This means that there may be unforeseen consequences or benefits for certain actions due to Time Travel. I would rather play it safe and not swap anyone unless they volunteer. A or C don't seem to be helpful, but also keep in mind that not everyone will have the same reads, so unless you have specific targets in mind, there is nothing to be said. There is no point in switching threads unless your role necesitates it, or it is needed in order to move someone in/out of kill/reward stage for endgame. The problem with swapping for some sort of power role usage would be that you are painting a target on your back. B would be useful to specifically bring someone in to be lynched. At this current stage in the game, I have no idea who that would be. I don't trust anyone with an OS Roleblock, myself included. I think town is more likely to be blocked than scum. Assuming that the scum party consists of multiple people and all of them have access to some sort of factional kill, a roleblock that only works on half of the total playerlist would be easy to avoid. |
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. After all, we're a good way into day 1 at this point already
