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Post by chaostrodon on Jun 26, 2021 13:40:27 GMT
Why dont you talk more about quojove , wallape
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Post by chaostrodon on Jun 26, 2021 13:44:30 GMT
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 13:44:43 GMT
y 20 pages man y but fiine ill just skim through it to see if anything else scumpings me other than the obvious stuff that u mentioned and i mentioned at the start.
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Post by chaostrodon on Jun 26, 2021 13:46:11 GMT
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 14:02:36 GMT
if fort is town when peng is town and fort is town when peng is scum then fort is town big brain unfortunately still not sure about the latter but getting there would be cool this looks bad in hindsight tbh because as scum you would know peng is town so you could've done that to get a tr on ur scumpartner. its not something town can't do per se but it is something I very quickly looked at fort in countdown and I think he defends his partners has he defended like anyone this game if he is scum it is not with vert/gary/chaos in all likelihood >fort defends partners >fort defends gary >fort is not scum with gary :pika: quojova why is sky scum for reasons that don't involve me. People are looking at partners again like I'm conf scum so like sky has played the game pretty well if he is scum so there isn't very much at all that actually points to him being scum although I think he is probably in his range but the points of yesterday point very strongly to a scumteam involving you + at least one of fort/sky in a way that is compelling enough to vote on that basis alone imo but my confidence in that exact team is starting to wane a little bit which makes me now think that this is the most sound unvote skyvote garyyes not only that he also makes the townlists of some of the ppl here, which is why it frustrates me. if ur sticking with the gary/fort/sky team, i say vote gary first cuz he's a better info lynch. i just want to say this post is seriously sus unvotes sky into immediately saying something sky said was sus? these are one minute apart btw. This thing makes me believe quo wanted to buss on purpose more |
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 14:29:41 GMT
quo was also kinda flippity-floppity with their read on fort d2/d3 which i was too tbh but quo seems to have prior experience about playing w/ fort so i'd have expected a bit more of a stance from them
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 16:21:36 GMT
I have more time now
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 16:27:58 GMT
I'll respond to some stuff first
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 16:31:39 GMT
Not this again. Yes , I as scum , voted my partners every single time while also urging people to get off the counterwagons every damn time to a point that I lose my temper. >>weirdest thing to me is how correct about everything he is - which i guess is a compliment if he is town Man , why is it so fucking hard for your ego to accept that you are not the only player in the game and that other people can have better reads. If you werent so damn stuck up in your own head , you would see how bs your sky read was and why fort made perfect sense it's not about you having more accurate reads than specifically me it's about how almost every one of your reads was spot-on which is unlikely and perhaps you got everything right because you knew all the answers but yes bussing both your partners on d4 is also unlikely so it's something I have to weigh |
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 16:34:36 GMT
And now as for why scum!wallape is plausible in spite of all that. 1 - Gary's push on wallape made zero sense. He was looking at a quote from Cyan Talon and concluding wallape was scum from that. And he had some other reason like wallape was faking his reads or something which had zero substance. Wallape pushing on Gary was basically saying Gary was spouting bs which seemed natural as it was true. Scum!Gary on being the cw on day 1, deciding to spout bs about wallape and then setting the stage for them to push each other so as to spew the other as town was an idea I had for quite a while in the back of my head. 2 - Unlike quo , who had no reason to not shift off of Gary on d3 , or simply vote someone else, Wallape had a reason . He had already voted the cw to Gary on d1 , and then also shifted plur on d2. If wallape had shifted plur a second time, a competent town would have called out Gary vs Wallape for being fake af (Not this town lmao. This town is all like : ps-mafia.proboards.com/post/78985) . Alternatively, wallape simply werent online EOD3 and was expecting his partner Fort to get plur off Gary as usual (quojova was online) 3 - He was quick to remove sky from his list of townreads. He was also quick to make up a reason for why fort might be town , something about him voting quo. Which was hasty af since town!quo wouldnt omgus like that and scum!Fort voting town!quo was a pretty safe move. He produced some game plan or something but on reading back it isnt as convincing since he could have also gone Fort -> (me / sky) or (me / kliff). Its essentially the same thing and is also what town!wallape who had a townread on sky would come up with wallape have you responded to 3 btw I know you had a solve but it is weird to me that you would be willing to start a solve by hanging one of your previous trs |
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 16:40:30 GMT
I very quickly looked at fort in countdown and I think he defends his partners has he defended like anyone this game if he is scum it is not with vert/gary/chaos in all likelihood >fort defends partners >fort defends gary >fort is not scum with gary :pika: I believe at that point fort had done a mix of defense and aggression towards gary and in my mind the aggression was more prominent
in hindsight way too hasty thoughso like sky has played the game pretty well if he is scum so there isn't very much at all that actually points to him being scum although I think he is probably in his range but the points of yesterday point very strongly to a scumteam involving you + at least one of fort/sky in a way that is compelling enough to vote on that basis alone imo but my confidence in that exact team is starting to wane a little bit which makes me now think that this is the most sound unvote skyvote garyi just want to say this post is seriously sus unvotes sky into immediately saying something sky said was sus? these are one minute apart btw. This thing makes me believe quo wanted to buss on purpose more
why does it make you think that |
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 16:44:13 GMT
nah i thought sky had more opportunities to flip scum than fort did. atp for me only viable fort partner was sky, whereas sky had partner opportunities in like fort/chaos/kliff iirc? If fort flipped town where would I go from there? Vote sky? Vote chaos? Vote kliff? from my pov it was 100% better to vote sky simply because i did not think Fort town flip did not out information on any another player
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 16:52:44 GMT
I already mentioned the pre-lylo bussing thing, and it seems like you're setting up a vote on sky the next day while also voting gary because it sets you up in a great spot
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 16:56:13 GMT
Like i will invoke the word "WIFOM" and completely shatter chaos' theory that bussing on D4 when both PRs are alive is a bad play. Chaos thinking quo would not do this is exactly why quo would do it and that was my point earlier.
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 17:10:32 GMT
damn i was hoping we could finish game off right now but looks like i'll have to wake up at 6am on a sunday morning after all ;~;
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 17:19:16 GMT
why did you switch wagons btw assuming this was directed towards me? Decided to swap off SC23 since afaik he's est and likely asleep, meaning im not getting a reaction from him (only thought of this after voting him so /shrug). atp the people who had talked were u,fort and ddlc. never played fort so idk how he'd respond to a vote, same w you, leaving only ddlc to be rvsd. keep thinking this is a pretty town focus to have fakeable but it's a data point Regarding user ddlcfan69: is ddlcfan negtown? Atm yes, yes they are. Does this mean that they are scum? No, no it does not. I've argued this point time and time again amd will continue to do so. Voting town just because they are negtown doesn't do any good nor does it advance the town wincon, which should be the goal. Rather, to vote negtown town is hypocritical as by doing so you are negtown yourself. It'd be much better and more telling on your own part, if you are town, to vote who you believe scum is. As much as I'd like for ddlc to stop meming as much as they are as it isn't getting anywhere, they're negligence as town does not make them scum. Leading into the further point as to why I don't like th sfl shift. First off, they took the opportunity to get on negtown when ddlc said "ur mom..." Was this unnecessary on ddlc's part. Yes. Should it be considered a scumtell, not imo. However, as aforementioned constant filler isn't ideal. The other issue is I don't like how easily sfl got off wallape. They seemed satisfied enough with basically NAI. Hence why I've gotten on wallape, as the justification to sfl getting off really isn't there, and with the shift was unnecessary. Wouldn't be surprised if its a potential early game bus. Now, by no means am I saying ddlc is town. But ddlc, if you are, advance your own wincon and don't help scum by being negtown. Because they can just take control and take advantage. And if you sr ddlc for reasons beside negtown filler, get on them and see what I care, but if thats it, I'm uncertain. This post just gives me bad vibes. Theres many things that are scum indicative that you're forgetting here, including replying to all posts that lay a vote on him. If you think they are negtown, give a valid reason as to why other than saying that "being aggressive" is nai. I think that being aggressive the way he was early day 1 is pretty bad and unwarranted. Someone already mentioned this but it might mean they're panicking. They also keep saying "what I'm doing is something only a vt would do", which is also something I dont like, just gives me bad vibes. Topping it off with a "im uncertain" after posting all that saying that ddlc is (neg)town is weird. I wouldn't be surprised by a ddlc + Gary scum team atp. notable that there is no vote here and a lot of the push is based in ddlc + gary with a ddlc flip first; pushes into slightly more bussable territory This post gives me good vibes i just can't explain why exactly. The way he thinks ahead about what happens if he flips town is good, and its not like he's getting overly aggressive at cyan/ is pushing him hard just because cyan is pushing him but rather seems to think he's just pushing the wrong read here. Feel like a lot of scum get agitated in this situation and just hard OMGUS but I like that ddlc is not doing that. On the other hand i find it really difficult to see his read progression like i said earlier. I think a full out read list to see where you stand right now would be considering a lot of ur current day was spent defending urself. ddlcfan69 overall: ddlc is giving me more reasons to ul him but there's still stuff i want him to clarify before being convinced that he's not the lynch for today starts to think about unvoting ddlc here and the way this is set up makes it look like he will if ddlc clarifies the things he is being asked for hard to say who wallape would have actually gone onto if he unvoted ddlc though because he missed deadline judging by how he voted penguin sod2 though its plausible that he was thinking of a shift onto a non-gary player Regarding user ddlcfan69: is ddlcfan negtown? Atm yes, yes they are. Does this mean that they are scum? No, no it does not. I've argued this point time and time again amd will continue to do so. Voting town just because they are negtown doesn't do any good nor does it advance the town wincon, which should be the goal. Rather, to vote negtown town is hypocritical as by doing so you are negtown yourself. It'd be much better and more telling on your own part, if you are town, to vote who you believe scum is. As much as I'd like for ddlc to stop meming as much as they are as it isn't getting anywhere, they're negligence as town does not make them scum. Leading into the further point as to why I don't like th sfl shift. First off, they took the opportunity to get on negtown when ddlc said "ur mom..." Was this unnecessary on ddlc's part. Yes. Should it be considered a scumtell, not imo. However, as aforementioned constant filler isn't ideal. The other issue is I don't like how easily sfl got off wallape. They seemed satisfied enough with basically NAI. Hence why I've gotten on wallape, as the justification to sfl getting off really isn't there, and with the shift was unnecessary. Wouldn't be surprised if its a potential early game bus.Now, by no means am I saying ddlc is town. But ddlc, if you are, advance your own wincon and don't help scum by being negtown. Because they can just take control and take advantage. And if you sr ddlc for reasons beside negtown filler, get on them and see what I care, but if thats it, I'm uncertain. Um sir if u do think this is true then why did you want to vote me over cyan? Atp cyan was being pushed by vertigo as well, whereas I had near no traction. Surely if you thought both of us were scum then you'd vote the person with more traction? Also basing ur read on us on *A SHIFT FROM RVS VOTE* is also an extremely weak reasoning. While my previous sr on u was based heavily on ur tone, this gives me more reasons to vote u so... Unvote Penguin d, Vote GaryTheSavagethis is the point where wallape shifts to gary if it is a bus it is done very well the way he shifted off peng this early makes it feel very impromptu gary's reasoning for voting wallape is very weird here but I'm not sold yet that it's for a bus - although I'd probably give it a lean in that direction because I think gary can see how dumb this reasoning is if he isn't trying to make a read to distance Shifts off a lurker bc of a nai line, to secure gary not being voted perhaps? I like this hot take upon fort+gary i want to see u expand upon this sir does scum wallape make this post probably he can but it felt significant despite giving me no strong indication of alignment Peng on Peng :thinking: Also don't think Peng + Gary makes much sense but Gary + Cyan sounds fine the not peng + gary thing is something you wouldn't really want to out as scum because it makes gary a suspect if peng flips and peng cleared if gary flips and wallape is looking for hangs in those two on that day and the distancing compensation is pretty questionable does this change anything regarding ur mindset towards gary or nah Also im not rly sure exactly bc the more I read through it the less unlikely I find town going through a process that he went through when voting me... the only manner I see is he wanted to have some interactions with cyan but didn't feel comfortable lynching him (this is the main reason I see cyan + gary). On the other hand I see quo making valid points bc there's like what 6-7 ppl willing to vote out gary? There is one explanation for this but idr want to say it (right now atleast) highlighted part is particularly town to me what was the explanation btw? posting this in parts |
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 17:20:16 GMT
Like i will invoke the word "WIFOM" and completely shatter chaos' theory that bussing on D4 when both PRs are alive is a bad play. Chaos thinking quo would not do this is exactly why quo would do it and that was my point earlier. didn't all three of us vote for maf on d4 |
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Post by wallape on Jun 26, 2021 17:31:11 GMT
We did which I didn't realize but chaos' main point was that u didn't have a motivation to buss so I was explaining that
Also I think the highlighted part was just my buss theory lol as for why I didn't want to say it I think it might end affected someone's answer to a previous q of mine but I honestly don't remember too well
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Post by chaostrodon on Jun 26, 2021 17:41:50 GMT
quojova , did you read my posts today
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 17:45:41 GMT
unvote gary
vote peng if peng flips scum kliff+chaos should be looked at shifts off gary here tbh with the setup of wallape mentioning early on in the day that he would vote in gary/peng a planned switch from the beginning seems plausible not sure if it's probable though it does feel like wallape gave very little resistance to a peng switch when it finally came up Sigh shouldn't have doubted my reads vote Gary this particular vote is null for me I think it's the vote you have to make given what you have stated in the previous days as either alignment ngl kinda forgot this was happening but if gary flips scum im looking at cyan/articoo and to a very much lesser extent kliff/quo. to expand : a) Gary sr'd me on the basis of cyan being scum, but voted me. Also was wishiwashi on his cyan read. Kinda like throwing stuff that he could use to buss cyan in a potentially sticky situation in the future b) articoo just throwing out a random tr and not explaining weird kinda surface level read ik but i think this should still be something we look at c) Kliff : This is entirely reliant on my buss theory so i would love to hear thoughts on it but kliff abandoning his peng sr from d1 on d2 is weird imo and it might be a buss attempt for town cred to cement him in town core in future d) Quo is still least likely out of these imo bc their thought process i find to be fairly easy to follow but they could still be scum for obvious reasons disclaimer : might not be as active as previous days until thursday - have an exam on that day and i really need to prep for it rn puts in a solid effort to expand on gary scumteams here but fort is notably absent (in contrast to chaos) it seems to me like wallape was never really on board with hanging fort have to think about which bus gameplan makes more sense - on the surface it's chaos's but I need to look at more specific d5 context which I'll get to at some point im ngl i haven't noticed fort at all... everything they say seems alright but nothing in it stands out to me and makes me go "yeah he's town" but that just might be not reading too much. I might reread later on but rn im a bit busy with exam prep so can't :x also for all of the people saying gary is town - I want people to counter the arguments put forth other than just saying "the reasoning is bad/lackluster". Can someone explain to me how a townie goes through the process of "x is probably bussing y, so let me vote y because x is townier!" Also FOS on Kliff bc his reads change from day to day and his replies to all of my qs are rather vague... his day 1 peng read disappeared day 2 and turned to vote on Gary, who's vote progression seemed artificial. Now, on D3, his Gary read seems to have disappeared... it seems like he has an agenda that he's deciding at night bc these change in reads do not seem natural to me. People who tr kliff could you explain to me why kliff is town? Aside from his analysis on cyan/peng/gary team which i liked atp, i really don't see much atp if wallape is scum he is fully on board to bus gary (probably partially due to reaction against gary on d2 due to fast wagon formation) and I think that is plausible as scum the bigger question to me is why he would choose to set up peng/gary on d2 If chaos was scum whod be partner though? Quo/Fort r possible from my pov. Chaos' frustration with quo doesn't seem like a svs interaction to me. HIGHLY unlikely at best. Chaos pushed fort yesterday. Don't think scum busses in such a bad situation I skipped a lot in d3/d4 that I didn't feel strongly on this solve feels very natural to me though he clears chaos very suddenly but I can very clearly see why |
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 17:47:54 GMT
that took so long and all I know is that I still tl wallape albeit less than before
I still don't know who I'm voting because I think I'll probably also townlean chaos once I reread him
hopefully I will have some kind of conclusion by that point though
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 17:50:58 GMT
quojova , did you read my posts today yes if this is about the d4 bus I mean the reasoning that pre-lylo with 2 prs is an awkward time to bus is sound but it also applies to you who shifted to fort on that day when you could have justified a shift to another player if you wanted and because the gary wagon was dwindling it would not be weird if wallape decided to switch |
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Post by chaostrodon on Jun 26, 2021 17:59:54 GMT
quojova , did you read my posts today yes if this is about the d4 bus I mean the reasoning that pre-lylo with 2 prs is an awkward time to bus is sound but it also applies to you who shifted to fort on that day when you could have justified a shift to another player if you wanted and because the gary wagon was dwindling it would not be weird if wallape decided to switch
Its about d5. Do you think the remaining mafia goon would be pushing the mafia roleblocker at that point.
Mafia kills are compulsive |
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Post by quojova on Jun 26, 2021 18:01:59 GMT
realized I made a typo
when I said "on the surface it's chaos's" I mean "on the surface it's wallape's" because hard bussing 1 partner makes more sense than 2
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Post by chaostrodon on Jun 26, 2021 18:04:02 GMT
Thats not my question.
Do you think so or not
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