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Post by termsofservice on Apr 28, 2023 13:26:46 GMT
Welcome to ISO Dive: A series of posts where I, Sylveon & Rando, will look through a player's isolated message history to make some reads! This pilot episode is a more obvious pick, having plagued this game with filler from the very start. That's right, CCGeek! First, I will look through his ISO, commenting on each post. Then, I will compile all the evidence to make my final verdict. Enough stalling, however. Let's dive into ISO Dive, Episode 1: CCGeek, the Completely Full Glass. who is termsofservice vote: lindauna hi uwu Opening Line: Here he instantly starts useless namefinding. I will not bother you with anymore details about this. wait is this considered spamposting? He absolutely didn't need to ask this question. All it does is make the spamposting worse. "Look, I'm agreeing with somebody else! Please vote with me." - Shaun, probably oh look im a treestump now apparently. cool flavour Yet another useless message. Yes, your role changes as you post more. You don't need to post about that. oh shit not the misping aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. i used @ cyan without the space and I'm d y I n g. I would assume you would want to ping cyan here, but eh. Just another useless post. clems do u think ailura is scum This question doesnt help create discussion, it just ends with a yes/no answer and hits a dead end. He doesn't even ask again when clemens doesn't answer. As pointed out by clemens later in d1, this post is purely filler. Aka is also to blame, however. Day 2 opening message. If you're reading this and can decipher this, please let me know what the actual fuck it means. wait wtf doc dead? also what is that myan kill  Scum is not gonna tell you why they killed myan, so you don't need to ask. gn Ailura What if I hardclaim ice scum, right now  Fr tho, all I have to say is that @ cyan 1. I'm well aware pmeta is not a valid defense, but I think it might be the only defense I can give myself to your accusation. I'm aware I'm not exactly playing this game exactly how I do when I actively try to solve from the start, but I'm just using this as a relaxing game to casually play and actively play on the backfoot, rather than taking this too seriously. But yes, I frankly don't care if I'm scum to you, but I enjoy being inside the game and taking a more side role than actually duking it out front and centre. To make my activity issues clear, classes have started and I'm barely free in the day, except for the few following hours from now. @aka Dactyl has been a nonexistent slot with the only thing in their ISO being a Clems vote, that too pretty early in the game. Considering Mr Townleader over here considers me the prime push for the fire scum slot, do you think Dactyl is the wagon right now? Or was that vote just to get a wagon going? Okay the posts are starting to lean away from filler. This means I need to break down how bad this is. "What if I hardclaim ice mafia?" We vote you out for trolling.  Not like you're gonna do it, anyways. "I'm not scum, it's just pmeta!" And the colour of grass is red. Pmeta is not an excuse to filler. "Idc if you think I'm scum." MAYBE YOU SHOULD? "Dactyl isn't here, vote him." Forum mafia is much slower than on PS. Not everybody is gonna be here at the same time arguing with each other. "Is Dactyl the wagon in your opinion? Or did you just want to start a wagon?" Are you scum? Or is your role not aligned with town? Correction: I mention Dactyl's activity in one of my posts too. Also, in hindsight, do you not think that usually a partner would have somehow thrown light on the lack of activity, since it's free towncred? It's what I usually do as scum, and what I'd expect most moderately-experienced scum to pull off. Especially considering how clems threw around readlists frequently, it's slightly odd to me that he wouldn't mention afk partners at all.
"I mention dactyl being inactive too!" This is a bad attempt at coasting. "Yeah scum would totally bus lmao." Nothing to say but  Actually, on ISOing clems rn, I did find this post: Hmmm.
Now the question is, do we have a substitute? "I was reading through flipped scum's posts and found this one calling me out. Hm." If you think this clears you, I have lost all faith. "Btw do we have a sub?" Who tf do we need a sub for?!?!
This concludes the current episode of ISO Dive. Next episode will cover aka, and how they are slipping under the cracks. Overall, my final verdict for CCGeek is Probably Wolf. See you next time! This is fake as FUCK. They made a big Wallpost to make it seem like Mr. Sylveon is doing much but 90% of it is just "wow this makes no sense!" Vote: Slyveon |
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Post by termsofservice on Apr 28, 2023 13:34:10 GMT
This is probably going to be my longest post yet as I came back to 2 pages of discussion, so I'll begin where I left off in my last post, where I said we should look further into Schiavetto, Akakakp, and Cyan Talon.
This is Aka's response, which deflects rather than addressing the points brought up. I'll probably follow this up when someone posts the iso.
FTF already said it better than me but the way lin's posts are constructed are super townie. Easy to read, lots of solid evidence, and just the right amount of townie paranoia/indecision. As for the vote switching I thought it would be fun to see what kind of reactions I could get out of Clemens and possibly some other players. Cleared CCGeek from being ice mafia as you and Cyan already stated. Could you elaborate on the Scorr TR? They hopped on the CC wagon with me and Clems so I am surprised you didn't mention that. I'm not sure what Aka gains by buddying me here, but their response here is strange. I mentioned my reason for the SR to be constant vote shifting post RVS, yet they instead direct attention to the Scorr read. Scorr was on ToS, a slot that went from being unhelpful to being townie and I see no issue with their shift. Scorr was also the only player to townread Clemens, which would be a very strange play indeed if they were scum. I feel Scor's responses D1 and D2 come from a foundation of solid reasoning. Your vote shifts, on the other hand, didn't seem to be backed by the same amount of reasoning. I fail to understand why Aka would bandwagon Clemens only to shift to Myan, but with the subsequent Myan kill i feel this is too scummy to be scum. I dislike the deflection and lack of engagement with my inquiry here. Hope someone posts an iso dive on this, thanks.
On the other hand, I like the way Schiavetto engages with and directly addresses the points brought up here.
These stances are probably ~fine, in response to the first part I can offer some thoughts for your consideration: For starters, I'm a very probe-y player in general, I like to kick things around to see whether and how they move. Reading my vote on Clemens as a late bus overlooks several things - I was the one who initiated the widespread SRs on the slot (he questioned my willingness to park on Myan from a place of uncertainty, which was at odds with his own professed opinion on the slot, and when his backtracking later on by saying he didn't know what was meant by "never look back" was in contradiction with his response to me in the first place, which demonstrated his understanding). I stated readiness to pivot onto him right in the beginning of that interaction, and bussing is Extremely Suboptimal for scum in this theme (atvl, it's suboptimal with doctor & both opposing goons still alive). You can also see clem getting antsy after my posts to him, or even just the fact that he thought my Jojo copypasta was an introduction post (I didn't correct him or anyone else on this, was very fun to watch) and tried to use it to distract thread. On the bit about Cyan, that's not TMI, that's just an understanding of how the setup works lol. Flush came away with the same conclusion (which, again, Scorr and I both called to light), and you go through the same logistics in your third bullet, where you recognize that the Cyan's tunnel reads as a genuine read, but its narrowness is what makes it problematic--the way Cyan jumps onto the fos and then clings to it through to the end of the phase is one of the underlying signs of selective scumhunting, i.e., scum positioning themselves to appear like they're solving by using their reads on the opposing faction. I think it's reasonable to view Cyan and my interactions as S/T (bc Cyan is reasonably scummy here) but S/S is out of the question. Think we're more or less on the same page re: akak
Schia addressed the fact they're probing multiple slots and this has been consistent across their play, and kicked up momentum on the Clemens SR. This is backed by valid reasoning- the fact clemens distracted the thread, the whole interaction with Clemens over the Myan vote. I think Schia's reads and the reasoning and follow up they have to posts are town indicative. This reads like genuine town rather than an attempt at buddying.
Moving on, couple posts here that caught my attention. on reconsideration maybe "ccgeek is playing passive, fire mafia is acting passive so ccgeek must be fire mafia" isn't as strong of a read as i initially thought i'm staying on mainly because they promised content and i don't like people who promise content until they properly deliver for now, i'm just going to shuttle off random thoughts and continue discussioni did say it was surface level. generally i think akakakp was calling a lot of attention onto clemens yesterday and the thought that struck me was "would scum actively defend and buddy their partner that blatantly?" but with the post you pointed out earlier i think it's more likely that akakakp was simping for some inexplicable reason and trying to find that would be severely unproductive right, but we have no grasp on what fire mafia were playing at by killing ftf and until we do it's just not something i think is worth working out if we work surface-level and assume that flush's reads (and the general consensus they represent, sans the read on me) were a threat to scum, that's an immediate path to a WIFOM "but flush could've been killed to frame the scumslots!" argument it just stands out to me that for what it's worth, i think flush's death should be written off as fearkill until we get something that points us in a different direction but for the sake of engagement let me also address your latter avenue of discussion: if you think fire maf wanted to set up a misvote by killing flush, i'd say the most viable pool of misvote targets is between termsofservice and akakakp. anyone higher in the list is just not getting voted either way and anyone lower doesn't need flush to get the push running. i'm just a staunch believer that policy kills are the lazy option; we do them when nothing better stands out. i've probably been conditioned to the frequency of policy-viable players in chat mafia and the relatively common trend of scum catching on and policying them in turn Not sure why Cyan is so insistent on not relying on FtF's iso, a lot of Cyan's more recent posts are centered around his own slot in the game, or aimed to justify why scum would behave in a particular way. I can't see many of these lines coming from a townie perspective. Hi scorr. Pls have mercy. As much as Sylv's ISO dive feels super manufactured none of it matters because this last line is the scummiest thing I've ever seen. Vote: SylveonWhile I agree it is a scum tendancy to overanalyze any content they can get their hands on and that this iso dive seems like an opportunistic contribution, I feel we may be jumping the gun on a slot that hasn't really gotten to play. I dislike the way sylveon picked up on almost every line from ccgeek just to have something to comment on, however I'll look into their next iso dive before resolving this slot. I feel like you are very biased in saying saying that, because if one were to perform nka on ftf's read wall they may come to the conclusion that you are in the scumpool. vvv
ForgotToFlush
vv
Schia, lindauna, scrooch
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termsofservice, aka
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Cyan, clems, ccg
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Myan
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zesty/dactyl/sand I don't think anyone aside from possibly schia was pr reading ftf, and Schia would've benefitted from Ftf being alive since he was one of the strongest listed trs. If we were to say it was a fearkill, it would leave Cyan, CCG, Myan. Trying to default a vote onto one of the low posters feels like a very mediocre play from town especially since there is momentum from D1 ice vote. This line of analysis really reads town to me tbh, I like the response to Cyan coupled with the reasoning on who we should vote - I feel directing a wagon onto Dactyl/ihbst is very suboptimal townplay and Cyan really stands out as the scummiest player right now. A lot of their lines read Engagement for the Sake of Engagement, there was absolutely no reason to push a vote onto an inactive slot. first of all, i'm manually and artificially spoilering this quote to make it easier for the rest of us to digest.and my thoughts? like i know this isn't IIoA but does anyone else feel like this iso dive is a little... non-committal? it kind of feels like sylv is just reacting individually to lines and talking about how scummy they are. my definition of scumhunting is looking at the posts and trying to find out what the poster is attempting to achieve, and this is not that feel free to call me out if i'm looking at this wrong, but sylveon comes off to me as someone who either thinks they're scumhunting or is faking scumhunting but if we're talking about the post itself: the conclusion these points are leading me to is that ccgeek is playing in bad faith and refusing to engage with the gameand while i'm all gung-ho about getting them killed for that alone, i'm really not sold on how these points suggest ccgeek is outright scum I really dislike this line where they're for getting sylveon killed over the iso dive post, their lines here once again read Engagement for the Sake of Engagement. Not sure why they're backtracking on their ccgeek SR post from the start of the day to SR sylveon. Would appreciate if Cyan can respond to these inquiries. Another pattern I've noticed is that Cyan's SRs were all wagons started by someone else - their entire read on Clemens originated from an interaction where schia called out an atrocious response from the latter, and their post on CCGeek appear to originate from my D1 SR. They also had strange interactions with CCGeek which I'd like to talk about in another post. there seems to have been a misunderstanding: tos and akakakp aren't slots who look scummy with ftf dead, they're slots whose push would be easier if ftf was dead. killing ftf would be the removal of an obstacle, not a step in the intended direction also i was disregarding myself in that statement so i should probably concede that ftf's death makes my push harder and you're free to take that what you will. the question schia raised was what push scum would find easier with flush out of the picture and unless scum wanted to imply that i killed flush (which in that case would point towards akakakp) i'd do an iso dive of akakakp myself but sylv was offering and having the isos posted is just generally a good thing for visibility so i'll just sit here and wait Again very contradictory, why are they now shifting to another slot sred by myself and schia? I feel the entire cyan talon iso lacks true scumhunting intent and is focused on the FtF flip and its implications, going over slots that have been hard SRed by other players, and ultimately making contributions for the sake of having something to say. publicly declaring that if sylv doesn't do the akakakp isodive in 10-ish hours i'm going to do it myself i'm not too concerned about getting it out ASAP because all i really have to say is: there's a big disconnect with how akakakp was playing in the early stages of Day 1 and how they were playing from late D1 onwards (when the Clemens vote took up traction), and while i find it weird i can't tie it to explicitly scummy motives the best i can actually do in that regard is "akakakp is framing me, help!" and those are not the depths i will sink to No idea how cyan can't tie anything to scummy motives, I'm having a hard time seeing how they've sred at least 3 slots at this point yet remain parked on CCGeek, despite calling out the sylveon iso dive as articifical scumhunting. They also had this line in a later post:
"i'm not ashamed to admit that yes! asking everyone to disregard this pool would be kinda good for me since ftf was one of two people pushing me d1"
I feel that town has no reason to disregard a potential scumpool simply because they're an SR, a lot of the content coming from this slot is wishy-washy and lacks solid justification. Not a fan of how shifty they have been either, this is my vote for the day.
Vote: Cyan Talon
Looking for the akakakp iso dive before I comment further on this slot. I'm pretty sure schia and scorr are town here, cyan is my strongest SR. Aka and CCGeek are potential scum but I'll revisit this in a while. Refraining from comment on ToS and Sylv for now as they have made limited contributions. Lastly, I would like to see more interactions from ihbst and dactyl as these slots have been pretty much absent from the discourse so far, as Schia said we are in need of more town clears.
I'm not reading this for 8 years |
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Post by lindauna on Apr 28, 2023 13:48:26 GMT
Before the sylveon wagon becomes a wagon can we let them post the iso. I'm not really reading this slot as scum, more of suboptimal interactions IE vote before analysis, overanalysis of iso, but there's some valid content in between. As a newer player I can see town doing this in an attempt to make meaningful contribution, I'd like to see them come up with some substantial reads and iso dives before this becomes a wagon.
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Post by termsofservice on Apr 28, 2023 13:49:37 GMT
Welcome to today's episode of I want to log off and sub out
Today I'll be doing a big fucking read wall
Sylveon's reactions are shitty, they are acting like they're conf town for making a big post that consists of them saying the same thing over and over again
Schia and Linduana's wallposts are something I dislike, I think they should split stuff up more and actively push people rather than simply making a big post about why someone is scum then disappearing, I'd like it more if they tried to ask questions and get answers
CCGeek and akakakp are fillery yes but I don't mind and don't think that's scummy
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Post by Shaun-CCGeek on Apr 28, 2023 14:45:02 GMT
hi, I'm back today. I have decided that I will do the following in my following posts: 1. Expand upon my readlist 2. ISO Cyan 3.  4. Profit!! shitposting aside, 1 and 2 are coming up rn. |
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Post by Shaun-CCGeek on Apr 28, 2023 14:45:34 GMT
oh god tfw bbcode turns the triple question mark into an emote. messed up the whole thing I was going for
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Post by cyan on Apr 28, 2023 14:48:50 GMT
lindauna i will echo TE's sentiment about having better post organisation because holy shit. responses in cyanThis is probably going to be my longest post yet as I came back to 2 pages of discussion, so I'll begin where I left off in my last post, where I said we should look further into Schiavetto, Akakakp, and Cyan Talon. This is Aka's response, which deflects rather than addressing the points brought up. I'll probably follow this up when someone posts the iso.
FTF already said it better than me but the way lin's posts are constructed are super townie. Easy to read, lots of solid evidence, and just the right amount of townie paranoia/indecision. As for the vote switching I thought it would be fun to see what kind of reactions I could get out of Clemens and possibly some other players. Cleared CCGeek from being ice mafia as you and Cyan already stated. Could you elaborate on the Scorr TR? They hopped on the CC wagon with me and Clems so I am surprised you didn't mention that. I'm not sure what Aka gains by buddying me here, but their response here is strange. I mentioned my reason for the SR to be constant vote shifting post RVS, yet they instead direct attention to the Scorr read. Scorr was on ToS, a slot that went from being unhelpful to being townie and I see no issue with their shift. Scorr was also the only player to townread Clemens, which would be a very strange play indeed if they were scum. I feel Scor's responses D1 and D2 come from a foundation of solid reasoning.
Your vote shifts, on the other hand, didn't seem to be backed by the same amount of reasoning. I fail to understand why Aka would bandwagon Clemens only to shift to Myan, but with the subsequent Myan kill i feel this is too scummy to be scum. I dislike the deflection and lack of engagement with my inquiry here. Hope someone posts an iso dive on this, thanks.
context for the original post: akakakp's reply here is addressing the post where lindauna gives us their d2 scumpool. "deflection" really isn't the best way to summarise the reply mainly because you can't argue a point against someone and expect them to do anything but attempt to justify their actions (or concede, but who does that?) - akakakp does that here.
i do think the post itself is worth discussing, and i'll get to it in my upcoming post
everything from this point onwards consists solely of my responses to lindauna. if you wish to consider it the bulk of my activity, um... please don't?on reconsideration maybe "ccgeek is playing passive, fire mafia is acting passive so ccgeek must be fire mafia" isn't as strong of a read as i initially thought i'm staying on mainly because they promised content and i don't like people who promise content until they properly deliver for now, i'm just going to shuttle off random thoughts and continue discussioni did say it was surface level. generally i think akakakp was calling a lot of attention onto clemens yesterday and the thought that struck me was "would scum actively defend and buddy their partner that blatantly?" but with the post you pointed out earlier i think it's more likely that akakakp was simping for some inexplicable reason and trying to find that would be severely unproductive right, but we have no grasp on what fire mafia were playing at by killing ftf and until we do it's just not something i think is worth working out if we work surface-level and assume that flush's reads (and the general consensus they represent, sans the read on me) were a threat to scum, that's an immediate path to a WIFOM "but flush could've been killed to frame the scumslots!" argument it just stands out to me that for what it's worth, i think flush's death should be written off as fearkill until we get something that points us in a different direction but for the sake of engagement let me also address your latter avenue of discussion: if you think fire maf wanted to set up a misvote by killing flush, i'd say the most viable pool of misvote targets is between termsofservice and akakakp. anyone higher in the list is just not getting voted either way and anyone lower doesn't need flush to get the push running. i'm just a staunch believer that policy kills are the lazy option; we do them when nothing better stands out. i've probably been conditioned to the frequency of policy-viable players in chat mafia and the relatively common trend of scum catching on and policying them in turn Not sure why Cyan is so insistent on not relying on FtF's iso, a lot of Cyan's more recent posts are centered around his own slot in the game, or aimed to justify why scum would behave in a particular way. I can't see many of these lines coming from a townie perspective. i'm really just speaking from experience (source: trust me bro) that using the readwalls of a recently killed player to say "X is scum because [dead] SR'd them" is very wifommy and not productive. schia pointed out a different way to use flush's readwall by suggesting that certain players would be easier to push with flush out of the picture, which i tried to develop in my followup.
for the most part i just see flush as a prominent forum mafia figure and it's more than likely their death was just a fearkill because the lack of direction anywhere today suggests otherwiseI feel like you are very biased in saying saying that, because if one were to perform nka on ftf's read wall they may come to the conclusion that you are in the scumpool. vvv
ForgotToFlush
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Schia, lindauna, scrooch
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termsofservice, aka
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Cyan, clems, ccg
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Myan
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zesty/dactyl/sand I don't think anyone aside from possibly schia was pr reading ftf, and Schia would've benefitted from Ftf being alive since he was one of the strongest listed trs. If we were to say it was a fearkill, it would leave Cyan, CCG, Myan. Trying to default a vote onto one of the low posters feels like a very mediocre play from town especially since there is momentum from D1 ice vote. This line of analysis really reads town to me tbh, I like the response to Cyan coupled with the reasoning on who we should vote - I feel directing a wagon onto Dactyl/ihbst is very suboptimal townplay and Cyan really stands out as the scummiest player right now. A lot of their lines read Engagement for the Sake of Engagement, there was absolutely no reason to push a vote onto an inactive slot. i wasn't suggesting we push a vote onto an inactive? that was scorch's own input (my SoD vote was ccgeek)first of all, i'm manually and artificially spoilering this quote to make it easier for the rest of us to digest.and my thoughts? like i know this isn't IIoA but does anyone else feel like this iso dive is a little... non-committal? it kind of feels like sylv is just reacting individually to lines and talking about how scummy they are. my definition of scumhunting is looking at the posts and trying to find out what the poster is attempting to achieve, and this is not that feel free to call me out if i'm looking at this wrong, but sylveon comes off to me as someone who either thinks they're scumhunting or is faking scumhunting but if we're talking about the post itself: the conclusion these points are leading me to is that ccgeek is playing in bad faith and refusing to engage with the gameand while i'm all gung-ho about getting them killed for that alone, i'm really not sold on how these points suggest ccgeek is outright scum I really dislike this line where they're for getting sylveon killed over the iso dive post, their lines here once again read Engagement for the Sake of Engagement. Not sure why they're backtracking on their ccgeek SR post from the start of the day to SR sylveon. Would appreciate if Cyan can respond to these inquiries. Another pattern I've noticed is that Cyan's SRs were all wagons started by someone else - their entire read on Clemens originated from an interaction where schia called out an atrocious response from the latter, and their post on CCGeek appear to originate from my D1 SR. They also had strange interactions with CCGeek which I'd like to talk about in another post. i'll need you to define Engagement for the Sake of Engagement for us because if i were to use my interpretation of it then Sylveon would be the most guilty person of it in the entire thread for reasons i have previously outlined
as for why i'm not going for CCGeek, well... they say pressure isn't pressure if you call it pressure (i'll get to that in a moment)there seems to have been a misunderstanding: tos and akakakp aren't slots who look scummy with ftf dead, they're slots whose push would be easier if ftf was dead. killing ftf would be the removal of an obstacle, not a step in the intended direction also i was disregarding myself in that statement so i should probably concede that ftf's death makes my push harder and you're free to take that what you will. the question schia raised was what push scum would find easier with flush out of the picture and unless scum wanted to imply that i killed flush (which in that case would point towards akakakp) i'd do an iso dive of akakakp myself but sylv was offering and having the isos posted is just generally a good thing for visibility so i'll just sit here and wait Again very contradictory, why are they now shifting to another slot sred by myself and schia? I feel the entire cyan talon iso lacks true scumhunting intent and is focused on the FtF flip and its implications, going over slots that have been hard SRed by other players, and ultimately making contributions for the sake of having something to say. is it not natural to just pursue the most recent clues for discussion because they tend to be more relevant and easier to read through? i'm not trying to play hyper-actively here for, well, mental constraints - but saying my contributions are "for the sake of having something to say" is a bit of a minefield statement
please check my d1 push on clemens because while i do admit that schia's post is what clicked it in my mind i wasn't putting in the legwork to spell it out solely so i could look active (my push on clemens was almost solely focused on their LAMIST so how's that)
and if you want me to play like that now... well, i have thoughts and i'll get to those!publicly declaring that if sylv doesn't do the akakakp isodive in 10-ish hours i'm going to do it myself i'm not too concerned about getting it out ASAP because all i really have to say is: there's a big disconnect with how akakakp was playing in the early stages of Day 1 and how they were playing from late D1 onwards (when the Clemens vote took up traction), and while i find it weird i can't tie it to explicitly scummy motives the best i can actually do in that regard is "akakakp is framing me, help!" and those are not the depths i will sink to No idea how cyan can't tie anything to scummy motives, I'm having a hard time seeing how they've sred at least 3 slots at this point yet remain parked on CCGeek, despite calling out the sylveon iso dive as articifical scumhunting. They also had this line in a later post: "i'm not ashamed to admit that yes! asking everyone to disregard this pool would be kinda good for me since ftf was one of two people pushing me d1" I feel that town has no reason to disregard a potential scumpool simply because they're an SR, a lot of the content coming from this slot is wishy-washy and lacks solid justification. Not a fan of how shifty they have been either, this is my vote for the day. Vote: Cyan Talon
Looking for the akakakp iso dive before I comment further on this slot. I'm pretty sure schia and scorr are town here, cyan is my strongest SR. Aka and CCGeek are potential scum but I'll revisit this in a while. Refraining from comment on ToS and Sylv for now as they have made limited contributions. Lastly, I would like to see more interactions from ihbst and dactyl as these slots have been pretty much absent from the discourse so far, as Schia said we are in need of more town clears.
i'm just going to say it straight here: you're assuming that any slots i call into questions are my solid hard reads. i don't have that level of self-confidence 99% of the time and i will resort to just listing out my best leads so everyone can throw in their two cents
if you wanted me to distill my interpretation of your case on me into one idea (which i assume many of the readers here would want): the big issue with my slot is a lack of commitment to reads and a hypercommitment to specific posts (here, primarily the ftf read wall and the ccgeek isodive). honestly all i can really say is that i just normally play like that until a lead forms by itself. part of me just wants to be arrested for this but i do want to ask: if your conclusion is that i am more focused on activity over content and therefore am scum, would that change significantly if i were to push someone with the same vigour i did clemens? and if not, how would these actions tie me to a scum alignment (and which one, since i did basically forget about that bit for all of d1)? Before the sylveon wagon becomes a wagon can we let them post the iso. I'm not really reading this slot as scum, more of suboptimal interactions IE vote before analysis, overanalysis of iso, but there's some valid content in between. As a newer player I can see town doing this in an attempt to make meaningful contribution, I'd like to see them come up with some substantial reads and iso dives before this becomes a wagon. unfortunately the "meaningful contribution" part of your analysis doesn't stick out to me very well primarily because sylv is choosing to focus on ccgeek, a slot who was already very strongly suspected in d1 and has done itself no favours d2 like for what it's worth ccgeek is low-hanging fruit at this point and, oh wait Unvote Shaun-CCGeek
their responses convey a lack of effort that no amount of pressure is going to kickstart so i'm going to drop the read and start waffling Key takeaway here should be that Sylveon and CCGeek cannot be partners.Welcome to today's episode of I want to log off and sub out Today I'll be doing a big fucking read wall Sylveon's reactions are shitty, they are acting like they're conf town for making a big post that consists of them saying the same thing over and over again Schia and Linduana's wallposts are something I dislike, I think they should split stuff up more and actively push people rather than simply making a big post about why someone is scum then disappearing, I'd like it more if they tried to ask questions and get answers CCGeek and akakakp are fillery yes but I don't mind and don't think that's scummy as for TE, well... i kind of find their low-effort play townie by tone? but at the same time they really aren't committing to any original reads and that sucks balls
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Post by Fenrir on Apr 28, 2023 14:59:30 GMT
Votecount 2.1 If the day were to end now, Sylveon & Rando would be eliminated.
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Post by cyan on Apr 28, 2023 15:13:36 GMT
but here's a status update: currently the slots of concern to me right now are akakakp (which i noticed while skimming their iso earlier) and sylveon (for reasons already stated). and disclaimer: i do not hard scumread these two but i am very willing to vote one and am slightly willing to vote the other A. akakakp: did i say i was going to isodive? well i'm going to post snippets to get my point across instead what struck me as weird about akakakp's play progression is how they started out probing semi-actively into key posts during early day 1, like so: it's 8 AM and i have some Serious Thoughts - clem v. myan seems to be a big cross and it's entirely driven by clem's single-minded push on them BUT clem has yet to place the vote - clem is partly shitposting and partly trying to hold other members to a higher standard (see: "that last line was really sus", "i need people to describe their playstyle", getting pissed at CCGeek (or was it TE?) faux-calling the PL motherfuckers) - and a bigger point: clem's higher effort posts don't actually delve into who might be scum/town and just. look. i dunno what kinda vibes are we getting out of "i need all the newer players to describe their playstyle" Vote 我是谁 but also this quote makes me wonder, actually: is it likely myan and clem are buddies and clem is forcing distance after this fallout? Not a fan of the above two posts from Cyan. We are not very far into the game whatsoever and it feels like you're trying to exaggerate the conflict between Clemens and Myan in order to secure them as FoS for today -- which is also seen in the next quote where you try to cement "Clemens is the vote today" after what only 4 pages? i'm back and i have a few thoughts. this is post 1 where i casebuild and get this over with my stance on clemens has not changed. i firmly believe that their fervent push on myan adds up to jack shit and they're aware of it like come on! this screams so much like "look at me, i'm doing what town does, i'm pursuing a scumread" and they haven't repeated any of the two (flimsy) points they made in their past few posts. and in case we all need a reminder i'm going to just let the actual reasoning behind the myan wagon sit on its own pedestal for all of us to admire: this isn't a read complex enough to warrant the kind of defensiveness clemens has been playing with these past few days. clemens is the vote of the day and if someone wants to contest it on grounds other than "Player X is a better vote" i'd like you to address all of clemens's recent posts when you do that and if you're wondering what i think after all of this, myan + clemens remains my bet for one of the scumteams. imagine i sponged schia's read again (if you missed it, it's clemens's "hey are you actually parked on myan" post before they went on this micrograin of a push), but also match it up with how myan has largely just... ignored the otherwise fairly large pressure on them and continued to play passively However I love the callout of Clemens being LAMIST, I can understand it completely from a town pov and said callout was the result of getting Clemens to react to Cyan. So while I don't love how Cyan went about approaching the Clemens push, if Clemens is scum it seemed to have worked out perfectly. Whether or not Clemens is actually scum I am unsure. I believe they said in their intro that they look scummy all the time and it's true, they do, so I am trying to give them some benefit of the doubt. Really not a fan of these last few lines from clemens as it neither engages with the game state nor directly addresses valid lines of inquiry from other players. The vote on Myan to avoid an SR for how hard they pushed is scummy, I feel the discussion about new players is quite NAI. Hoping Clemens can elaborate more on the Myan read beyond apparent OMGUS and one "sus line" ("next person to talk is scum and ill tunnel em tomorrow" - reads troll rather than scum). Think Clemens scum indicative here.
Clemens is pushing too hard on Myan but also needs to elaborate more on their read? How is voting their scumread trying to avoid getting SR'd? Not sure i'm following. Briefly addressing CCGeek here, I disagree with Clemen's statement that CCGeek's one line interactions with the game indicate distancing from Myan. Myan has stated "shaun seems fake af- either that or theyre awkward, lmk!". Seems like a genuine push as CCGeek lines read low effort attempts at gathering information on who's in the game and getting engagement from afks. However, they do seem new so i'll wait for more posts from this slot first.
unvote: spiderz vote: 我是谁 Do you think Myan is town then? Tos feels town. The nature of this quote just reads as super genuine: In order to help me decide I compiled everything I think about Myan and Clems: Myan: -avoiding crossing with Clemens (if Clemens flips scum then this is scummy, if they flip town this is NAI) -Mildly SRing two people yet staying on me, who is Null according to them (y'all gotta help me decide if this is NAI or scum) Clemens: -hardpushing Myan, only saying if others are town/scum without saying why (scummy) -Myan push feels forced (scummy) Especially the "y'all gotta help me decide this" part. Mwah. Unvote: termsofserviceVote: ClemensClemens explain your reads and convince us that you're town like your life depends on it but then their play quality took a nosedive and all of a sudden they were acting to save clemens (or at the very least pursue the counterwagons) at every turn in what seems to be a complete 180 from any stance implied by their ealier posts Unvote: ClemensVote: CCGeekClemens vote with me Congratulations Everyone For you’ve made it Just in time for THE PIVOTTTTTTT VOTE CCGEEK FOR FREE TOWNCRED Sad to see Clemens go. Maybe they will flip but considering they are our most active player and we have 2 players who have not moved their vote since RVS and 1 who hasn't even voted at all, I would really prefer to keep playing with them and not let this game die. One of those players who hasn't moved their vote is CCGeek. Could be town for not voting on the Clemens or Myan wagons but I have TR'd scum for that too many times before and have started to realize that usually that passivity is more scum!indicative than town!indicative. and since then (i.e., during D2), they've rubberbanded into "i thought clemens and myan were scum together" (which calls into question why they would want to leave clemens alive, but given the activity mourning that's neither here nor there" and have spent the majority of d2 explaining their d1 play Damn, scum rlly got doctor n1 ;; It's a bit late for me right now, so I'll list my thoughts here and follow up in the morning. So far I think from interactions with flipped scum CCGeek is possible town, definitely not ice mafia due to the Clemens vanity. Also kind of funny scum hit Myan (who was, at that point, one of the major SRs from D1). Scorr is the only strong town read I can see so far. On the other hand, these are a few slots I'd like to look further into as potential SRs: 1. Schiavetto - they've been rather skeptical so far which I liked, and their reads seemed solid. However their interactions with Clemens and simultaneous push on Cyan strikes me as a bit strange. With the Myan flip and their late ish vote on the Clemens wagon at a point he was almost universally scumread makes me reconsider if they're town. They also made a comment about how Cyan could be scum of an opposing faction to Clemens which seems like TMI for me. 2. Akakakp - Constant vote shifting from Clemens to CCGeek to MyanMario, was this an attempt to save Clemens by voting a weaker SR? Their posts and tone are fine, I just don't understand the triple shift here and I feel this could be a potential Clemens partner. 3. Cyan Talon - A lot of their reads seem to stem from a single interaction between Schiavetto and Clemens, and most of their interactions so far have been with schia if I'm not mistaken. I feel Schia and Cyan is a potential s/t or s/s cross. Their tunnel and inquiries to myself and responses to Schia seem genuine, but their alignment remains ambiguous. I'll be back with hopefully more content in the morning, gn FTF already said it better than me but the way lin's posts are constructed are super townie. Easy to read, lots of solid evidence, and just the right amount of townie paranoia/indecision. As for the vote switching I thought it would be fun to see what kind of reactions I could get out of Clemens and possibly some other players. Cleared CCGeek from being ice mafia as you and Cyan already stated. Could you elaborate on the Scorr TR? They hopped on the CC wagon with me and Clems so I am surprised you didn't mention that. Running back through, kinda torn on this - I think the train of thought behind that second half is villagery at a glance, has elements of reflection w/ sound conclusion & intent-to-action that track as townie, but the first half is kind of weird. It feels kind of off to lament the Clem wagon on the basis of his activity without also considering the circumstances of that activity (he got noticeably more vocal/finicky after I & others put pressure on his slot, and into phase-end) but there's also this idea that, like... it puts the onus of game activity on the scummy slot without taking time to evaluate if that's Villagery activity or Wolfy activty, and completely sails past the consideration that other players might pick up the slack (which is a perspective idt is consistent with other players' stated opinions on the stale threadstate) like, functionally it feels like a wolf trying to swing momentum away from a partner
I get that but I was struggling to read Clemens definitively since a lot of the 'scummy' things they did were things that they had pointed out as natural behavior for them. I also don't think I would be wrong in saying that a Clemens town flip would be pretty atrocious for us considering there wasn't any other wagon that went to E-1. The part about Clemens' activity being increased after pressure I did not notice but that is also a natural reaction that I would expect any townie to have. I also made the post you quoted 2 hours before the deadline so there was no momentum to be swung. Overall I can definitely see how it could fit into the mold of a Clem partner but the general idea of my end of day pushes was not based on Clemens but rather based on trying to catch some bad reactions. Was it worth it? A little bit. Would I do it again? Definitely >  if i had to guess what this play approach implies about akakakp, it's that i vaguely believe they lost motivation to play some time in late d1 or during n1.
if anyone remembers the surface level read where i (implicitly) argued akakakp couldn't be in a scumteam with clemens because of the very vocal and blatant "hey let's leave Clemens alive guys" deal? i'm fully retracting that and arguing that: akakakp is a candidate for Ice Goo who was forced into a severely disadvantageous position and stopped playing around the time their partner's fate was sealed.
this read conflicts with my earlier statements where i said if fire mafia wanted to frame me akakakp was the best candidate. the basis for that was this post: cyan is way too head over heels for the clemens push for me to think it's a town push currently
his whole iso is pushing clems lol
also he doesnt show much flexibility in a multiball game
i think cyan genuinely believes he found a scum in clem
i just think cyan is scum too
dactyl had more posts than i remembered
i think he's worse than ccgeek
ccgeek hasnt rlly contributed much but is tonally pure
dactyl worse by those metrics
saving clems for ccgeek means i have to watch cyan push him nonstop d2 again
Most significant thing I can gain from FTF's iso is that they were one of two people who had SR'd Cyan (the other being Schia iirc) and likely would have pushed Cyan if they were alive. They were also literally the only person to say something about Dactyl and said thing was an SR. Personally I think Dactyl is more likely to be aligned with Clem since Clem had a lot of pushback to everyone who voted them except for Dact and does not have Dact present in their readslist (seen here) But either way I think one of Cyan/Dact flips scum. where akakakp explicitly makes the "ftf sred cyan and dactyl and it was a hot take so cyan and dactyl might be scum" argument (although the latter is in conflict with the argument that clemens and dactyl were likely aligned, and said argument is also just extremely weak) to conclude: i'm putting my foot where my mouth is. VOTE: akakakp
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Post by cyan on Apr 28, 2023 15:13:54 GMT
Votecount 2.1 If the day were to end now, Sylveon & Rando would be eliminated.
lindauna is currently voting me btw just putting that out there |
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Post by frogo on Apr 28, 2023 15:40:10 GMT
Hi scorr. Pls have mercy. As much as Sylv's ISO dive feels super manufactured none of it matters because this last line is the scummiest thing I've ever seen. Vote: SylveonHow tf is my last line scummy? I just was adding clarification. And it shouldn't be so scummy that it nullifies my ISO Dive. It’s scummy because you’re defending yourself for making a bad post before anyone even reacts to it. Feels like subconsciously you are expecting or at least worried about being suspected. |
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Post by frogo on Apr 28, 2023 15:48:51 GMT
Editing quotes is hard on mobile so I just won’t but @linduana i in no way “deflected” from your accusation and painting that picture feels super malicious. I addressed your point head on while also asking for clarification on another part of the post. Not sold on this slot being town anymore.
Cyan and Scorr had a super productive discussion and Cyan feels super town from it but for some reason I’m not getting that vibe from Scorr. Wish I could explain but something just feels off.
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Post by frogo on Apr 28, 2023 15:55:06 GMT
Unsure what to make of the rest of lin’s posting. Way too much commentary to digest at once. One thing I noticed is that they called out Cyan for making SRs based on other people’s reactions to said SRs which frankly I think is perfectly fine considering we are not all here at the same time.
Sylveon omgussing is very funny and I will be parked there unless they unvote or show some semblance of a town POV.
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Post by frogo on Apr 28, 2023 15:57:27 GMT
Before the sylveon wagon becomes a wagon can we let them post the iso. I'm not really reading this slot as scum, more of suboptimal interactions IE vote before analysis, overanalysis of iso, but there's some valid content in between. As a newer player I can see town doing this in an attempt to make meaningful contribution, I'd like to see them come up with some substantial reads and iso dives before this becomes a wagon. Yikes yikes with a side of extra yikes. Why are you so hesitant to put pressure on them? Don’t you think we will get more out of the slot if they are getting voted? |
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Post by frogo on Apr 28, 2023 16:06:42 GMT
Ok I think I’m fully caught up now.
Tos and Cyan are mwah.
Cyan you’re like totally right that I’m losing motivation as the game goes on but it’s NAI and happens to me with quite literally everything I do.
I don’t know how many times I can explain my EoD1 play and you’re right that I am talking about it too much so I simply won’t. If you wanna sus me for it go right ahead.
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Post by frogo on Apr 28, 2023 16:09:02 GMT
If I had to solve the game right now I would say Sylv and Lin are our fire mafias and Dact or Scorr is the remaining icey.
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Post by termsofservice on Apr 28, 2023 18:54:05 GMT
lindauna i will echo TE's sentiment about having better post organisation because holy shit. responses in cyanThis is probably going to be my longest post yet as I came back to 2 pages of discussion, so I'll begin where I left off in my last post, where I said we should look further into Schiavetto, Akakakp, and Cyan Talon. This is Aka's response, which deflects rather than addressing the points brought up. I'll probably follow this up when someone posts the iso.
I'm not sure what Aka gains by buddying me here, but their response here is strange. I mentioned my reason for the SR to be constant vote shifting post RVS, yet they instead direct attention to the Scorr read. Scorr was on ToS, a slot that went from being unhelpful to being townie and I see no issue with their shift. Scorr was also the only player to townread Clemens, which would be a very strange play indeed if they were scum. I feel Scor's responses D1 and D2 come from a foundation of solid reasoning.
Your vote shifts, on the other hand, didn't seem to be backed by the same amount of reasoning. I fail to understand why Aka would bandwagon Clemens only to shift to Myan, but with the subsequent Myan kill i feel this is too scummy to be scum. I dislike the deflection and lack of engagement with my inquiry here. Hope someone posts an iso dive on this, thanks.
context for the original post: akakakp's reply here is addressing the post where lindauna gives us their d2 scumpool. "deflection" really isn't the best way to summarise the reply mainly because you can't argue a point against someone and expect them to do anything but attempt to justify their actions (or concede, but who does that?) - akakakp does that here.
i do think the post itself is worth discussing, and i'll get to it in my upcoming post
everything from this point onwards consists solely of my responses to lindauna. if you wish to consider it the bulk of my activity, um... please don't?Not sure why Cyan is so insistent on not relying on FtF's iso, a lot of Cyan's more recent posts are centered around his own slot in the game, or aimed to justify why scum would behave in a particular way. I can't see many of these lines coming from a townie perspective. i'm really just speaking from experience (source: trust me bro) that using the readwalls of a recently killed player to say "X is scum because [dead] SR'd them" is very wifommy and not productive. schia pointed out a different way to use flush's readwall by suggesting that certain players would be easier to push with flush out of the picture, which i tried to develop in my followup.
for the most part i just see flush as a prominent forum mafia figure and it's more than likely their death was just a fearkill because the lack of direction anywhere today suggests otherwiseThis line of analysis really reads town to me tbh, I like the response to Cyan coupled with the reasoning on who we should vote - I feel directing a wagon onto Dactyl/ihbst is very suboptimal townplay and Cyan really stands out as the scummiest player right now. A lot of their lines read Engagement for the Sake of Engagement, there was absolutely no reason to push a vote onto an inactive slot. i wasn't suggesting we push a vote onto an inactive? that was scorch's own input (my SoD vote was ccgeek)I really dislike this line where they're for getting sylveon killed over the iso dive post, their lines here once again read Engagement for the Sake of Engagement. Not sure why they're backtracking on their ccgeek SR post from the start of the day to SR sylveon. Would appreciate if Cyan can respond to these inquiries. Another pattern I've noticed is that Cyan's SRs were all wagons started by someone else - their entire read on Clemens originated from an interaction where schia called out an atrocious response from the latter, and their post on CCGeek appear to originate from my D1 SR. They also had strange interactions with CCGeek which I'd like to talk about in another post. i'll need you to define Engagement for the Sake of Engagement for us because if i were to use my interpretation of it then Sylveon would be the most guilty person of it in the entire thread for reasons i have previously outlined
as for why i'm not going for CCGeek, well... they say pressure isn't pressure if you call it pressure (i'll get to that in a moment)Again very contradictory, why are they now shifting to another slot sred by myself and schia? I feel the entire cyan talon iso lacks true scumhunting intent and is focused on the FtF flip and its implications, going over slots that have been hard SRed by other players, and ultimately making contributions for the sake of having something to say. is it not natural to just pursue the most recent clues for discussion because they tend to be more relevant and easier to read through? i'm not trying to play hyper-actively here for, well, mental constraints - but saying my contributions are "for the sake of having something to say" is a bit of a minefield statement
please check my d1 push on clemens because while i do admit that schia's post is what clicked it in my mind i wasn't putting in the legwork to spell it out solely so i could look active (my push on clemens was almost solely focused on their LAMIST so how's that)
and if you want me to play like that now... well, i have thoughts and i'll get to those!No idea how cyan can't tie anything to scummy motives, I'm having a hard time seeing how they've sred at least 3 slots at this point yet remain parked on CCGeek, despite calling out the sylveon iso dive as articifical scumhunting. They also had this line in a later post: "i'm not ashamed to admit that yes! asking everyone to disregard this pool would be kinda good for me since ftf was one of two people pushing me d1" I feel that town has no reason to disregard a potential scumpool simply because they're an SR, a lot of the content coming from this slot is wishy-washy and lacks solid justification. Not a fan of how shifty they have been either, this is my vote for the day. Vote: Cyan Talon
Looking for the akakakp iso dive before I comment further on this slot. I'm pretty sure schia and scorr are town here, cyan is my strongest SR. Aka and CCGeek are potential scum but I'll revisit this in a while. Refraining from comment on ToS and Sylv for now as they have made limited contributions. Lastly, I would like to see more interactions from ihbst and dactyl as these slots have been pretty much absent from the discourse so far, as Schia said we are in need of more town clears.
i'm just going to say it straight here: you're assuming that any slots i call into questions are my solid hard reads. i don't have that level of self-confidence 99% of the time and i will resort to just listing out my best leads so everyone can throw in their two cents
if you wanted me to distill my interpretation of your case on me into one idea (which i assume many of the readers here would want): the big issue with my slot is a lack of commitment to reads and a hypercommitment to specific posts (here, primarily the ftf read wall and the ccgeek isodive). honestly all i can really say is that i just normally play like that until a lead forms by itself. part of me just wants to be arrested for this but i do want to ask: if your conclusion is that i am more focused on activity over content and therefore am scum, would that change significantly if i were to push someone with the same vigour i did clemens? and if not, how would these actions tie me to a scum alignment (and which one, since i did basically forget about that bit for all of d1)? Before the sylveon wagon becomes a wagon can we let them post the iso. I'm not really reading this slot as scum, more of suboptimal interactions IE vote before analysis, overanalysis of iso, but there's some valid content in between. As a newer player I can see town doing this in an attempt to make meaningful contribution, I'd like to see them come up with some substantial reads and iso dives before this becomes a wagon. unfortunately the "meaningful contribution" part of your analysis doesn't stick out to me very well primarily because sylv is choosing to focus on ccgeek, a slot who was already very strongly suspected in d1 and has done itself no favours d2 like for what it's worth ccgeek is low-hanging fruit at this point and, oh wait Unvote Shaun-CCGeek
their responses convey a lack of effort that no amount of pressure is going to kickstart so i'm going to drop the read and start waffling Key takeaway here should be that Sylveon and CCGeek cannot be partners.Welcome to today's episode of I want to log off and sub out Today I'll be doing a big fucking read wall Sylveon's reactions are shitty, they are acting like they're conf town for making a big post that consists of them saying the same thing over and over again Schia and Linduana's wallposts are something I dislike, I think they should split stuff up more and actively push people rather than simply making a big post about why someone is scum then disappearing, I'd like it more if they tried to ask questions and get answers CCGeek and akakakp are fillery yes but I don't mind and don't think that's scummy as for TE, well... i kind of find their low-effort play townie by tone? but at the same time they really aren't committing to any original reads and that sucks balls My two original big reads are dead. Now I am tryin to make new ones. |
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Post by ihbst on Apr 28, 2023 19:21:45 GMT
oh bruh
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Post by ihbst on Apr 28, 2023 19:24:07 GMT
well reading the day I don't really have any definite read, I need to stay under the radar for later and I don't want to post low quality reads because they can be used against me later even though posting reads is arguebally better than doing nothing. The thing is I need more time to develop/cook I don't really have any town reads atm so ye
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Post by termsofservice on Apr 28, 2023 19:26:39 GMT
well reading the day I don't really have any definite read, I need to stay under the radar for later and I don't want to post low quality reads because they can be used against me later even though posting reads is arguebally better than doing nothing. The thing is I need more time to develop/cook I don't really have any town reads atm so ye This is town. I can't explain it but tis is town. |
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Post by ihbst on Apr 28, 2023 19:56:47 GMT
yo tos lets towncore? rn?
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Apr 28, 2023 22:22:33 GMT
Okay before I read aka's ISO, I'm gonna do something real quick. Unvote: CCGeek, Vote: akavote first ask questions later? |
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Apr 28, 2023 22:26:46 GMT
well reading the day I don't really have any definite read, I need to stay under the radar for later and I don't want to post low quality reads because they can be used against me later even though posting reads is arguebally better than doing nothing. The thing is I need more time to develop/cook I don't really have any town reads atm so ye Why do you want to stay under the radar? |
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Apr 28, 2023 22:31:54 GMT
If I had to solve the game right now I would say Sylv and Lin are our fire mafias and Dact or Scorr is the remaining icey. dactyl has like 1 content post and it's voting clemens. In what world would he ever flip ice? |
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Apr 28, 2023 23:32:15 GMT
hi i'm tired work's been ridiculous this week and i'm not in a rush to stare at a screen rn but i just wanted to take a sec to say i'm here, i'm caught up, and also:
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Not like you're gonna do it, anyways.
