|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 21:42:35 GMT
Schia is there a specific read you presented you'd like me to respond to / consider. I read the wob one because I was wolfcasing them and couldn't really think of much. I can see what you're saying, but I do think a lot of their points seem more controversial than you give him credit for sometimes (can find examples, but I personally remember the post he liked of Yash that you and I both had question marks about) I'll consider the rest when I'm wolfcasing them though dont worry. But if you're specifically interested in my thoughts on 1 Any/all of the three POE slots I named, but like I said that requires you to have read the game to be especially productive. Fair enough, I'll do that then. I do currently like the POE but haven't gone indepth on it yet |
|
|
|
Post by iavh on May 27, 2023 21:44:01 GMT
what don't you understand about the threadspewed read. What do you understand about my argument and where does that understanding breakdown. I just don't understand wahat threadspewed means |
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 21:48:02 GMT
Okay, but tell me how are you supposed to further the gamestate I think there's really enough to engage about. But since you already said you this thing about bussing and clemens. Could you present a case where scum!clem wants to bus in popcorn Also a case where town!scum got targeted by toni Explain mechanically why bussing is bad And if you think scum!clem would realise that bussing is bad (/ if he doesn't realise it, if you think he would do it or not) -It is easy to bus if you don't know how it impacts the game, bc giving town info in this theme is especially bad. There is no real way to punish town leaders, so unless you are trying to establish as a town leader (which crespo clearly wasn't) bussing really hurts. I would think if clemens/crespo were aligned then Clemens would also try to "case" crespo back which didn't really happen. Crespo aggressively pushed for Clemens shot, and its def not normal for scum to aggressively push partner so early in game. Clemens/Crespo scum team just doesn't make sense to me Almost forgot to respond to this. Does seem like a fair take though. That leaves me/schia/wob/prod/myan from your point of view. Does any scumteam make sense for you? I'm working on your wolfcase right now and previously you SRd Myan, nulled Schia, TRd wob and prod. |
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 21:49:56 GMT
what don't you understand about the threadspewed read. What do you understand about my argument and where does that understanding breakdown. I just don't understand wahat threadspewed means threadspewed means that, even if the slot itself may have done some questionable things or he a nebulous read, the treatment of the slot by other players, it's various interactions across the game, and the way the thread environmnt changes/responds or does not change/respond to that player suggests that they are most likely a villager. Contributing factors to threadspew read would be things like an abundance of unpartnered interactions or an abundance of players implicitly treating the slot as town. It's not a mechanically clearing read but one that comes from reading a collection of interactions in relation to each other. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary The Savage on May 27, 2023 21:55:24 GMT
Still unsure who I'm shooting completely. It will not be Myan It will sadly not be Clemens It will probably not be Snaq When you shoot, would you mind adding some final thoughts about each player. I was upset other gunbearers didn't do this besides their shot (which is obv the main scumread), as I think it'd be valuable insight to get your final perspective I would not, tho kinda dislike that this does assume I die |
|
|
|
Post by Gary The Savage on May 27, 2023 21:55:55 GMT
I personally like Myan. Ive said it a number of times |
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 21:57:43 GMT
When you shoot, would you mind adding some final thoughts about each player. I was upset other gunbearers didn't do this besides their shot (which is obv the main scumread), as I think it'd be valuable insight to get your final perspective I would not, tho kinda dislike that this does assume I die Lowkey did forget that shooting scum means that you don't die indeed. But can you elaborate on why you wouldn't? I don't really get it |
|
|
|
Post by iavh on May 27, 2023 21:58:56 GMT
going to sleep
night guys
|
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 22:03:01 GMT
okay wolfcase on ihbst: Ever since I've subbed in, he's been on the down low. Just... does not try to further the state of the game at all. I don't know how he's trying to be able to read people... or even if he's trying to read people. Most of the posts just feel like he hops into the thread reads for 5 minutes and says something related to it. I actually prefer his early game from the ISO, the posts mention different perspective, but the past few days it has IMO gotten a lot worse. From refusing to elaborate on a lot of points, getting stuck on a mechanical point, not giving any more perspectives. He did say he has run out of things to say, but I just don't see it. A lot has happened in the meantime. I could see scum!ihbst not wanting to become controversial at this point now there's less players in the game. This has ended today, maybe because there's more pressure on him though. But I do think he just kinda let the Yash/Gary shots happen while being passive about what was happening
I'm doing a towncase on this slot too, because lowkey it feels more useful to consider why a town player wants to play like this: ihbst actually has a fair number of posts, while they could've lurked more if they were scum. i kinda liked this post. There's more reads than I had thought at first ngl. Prodigu read later is interesting as well, and is the reason I'm a little weary of prod now This post also gave some insight to their thought process. The thoughts aren't especially deep, but I can see especially the lurker push perspective coming from a town perspective. I'd like to know what was "naughty" though. I also think that the reasoning for a bus not making sense is solid, and wanting to avoid the Yash shot is solid in hindsight. The early Myan push is interesting, I'll elaborate my feelings on it when I wolfcase Myan Thinking of what Schia pointed out, there does not seem to be anyone defending ihbst, even though a scumteam should try to stick together at this point of the game (in most cases). Unless Schia is ihbst's partner of course  Honestly, towncase was easier to do than I expected |
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 22:04:47 GMT
Gary The Savage would you prefer Myan or Schia wolfcase right now. Since you probs wont shoot Myan I think Schia might be more useful. I think I'll probably find Myan more scummy, but Schia could be more interesting. Will probs just finish with the last one tomorrow, but my energy for ISOs is running out and I also still need to write up the May interviews, so... up to you
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary The Savage on May 27, 2023 22:07:37 GMT
Gary The Savage would you prefer Myan or Schia wolfcase right now. Since you probs wont shoot Myan I think Schia might be more useful. I think I'll probably find Myan more scummy, but Schia could be more interesting. Will probs just finish with the last one tomorrow, but my energy for ISOs is running out and I also still need to write up the May interviews, so... up to you Yeah Schia |
|
|
|
Post by Gary The Savage on May 27, 2023 22:08:06 GMT
I would not, tho kinda dislike that this does assume I die Lowkey did forget that shooting scum means that you don't die indeed. But can you elaborate on why you wouldn't? I don't really get it I wouldn't mind |
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 22:12:56 GMT
Don't think it needs to be elaborate but knowing where you stand at the end of the day after everything has happened, in case you do die, would be useful imho
|
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 22:23:54 GMT
I will say that if we don't get a full reread from Snaq it will be the wolfiest thing about an other wise fine slot.
|
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 22:25:47 GMT
I will give you a reread but tomorrow
|
|
|
|
Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on May 27, 2023 22:58:17 GMT
I've been staring for too long but I'll try my best to pump out a final decent post
Schia wolfcase:
Firstly, as discussed yesterday. I think it would be in scum!Schia's best interest to push Yash to get the Yash->Gary pipeline going (which did happen) and definitely think scum!Schia would've taken this road. Especially as the post pushing Yash starts with normally Yash would be town, but... It would've been risky if Schia had actually "gotten" the gun as was his hypothetical situation at some point, to shoot yash. But, I think this was a pretty unrealistic situation anyway.
I don't get why Schia said wob was so shootable / to shoot wob. I assume the read changed due to increased activity, but it I do think scum!Schia would want to put sus on a town player who might not otherwise have gotten any spotlight. Similarly, when trying to shoot a peripheral town over a lurker could be a meta point to avoid "gunning" his scumpartner without actually having to consider the poster, only the overall category mechanically.
Finally, scum!Schia probably likes to use jargon to make his posts impressive but confusing to other players in the game who don't have as much forum mafia experience.
(Don't actually think the tic tac toe was that scummy. It distracted from the game for a bit but it doesn't seem like a pattern to me)
From my pov, Scum!Schia would have to put 2 scum out of his POE though, aka himself and the scumpartner. This would probably be ihbst from my perspective, but even from the final 4, a town would have to be shot before the game ends, which would make it pretty unreliable (from the order it seems like it would be ihbst). Do think a scum at this point would want to take some control over the game, as the main wincon right now involves keeping both scum players alive.
And that is my Schia wolfcase. For Schia I tried to analyze the thoughts behind his moves, as I do think Schia's post generally have solid reasoning (and also think scum Schia would be capable of writing decent motivation. I have not noticed inconsistencies that would indicate a specific motive though). I'll be around to answer / discuss maybe a little bit longer but fuck ISOs for today. I'll get working on the newsletter now
|
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 23:08:18 GMT
I've been staring for too long but I'll try my best to pump out a final decent post Schia wolfcase: Firstly, as discussed yesterday. I think it would be in scum!Schia's best interest to push Yash to get the Yash->Gary pipeline going (which did happen) and definitely think scum!Schia would've taken this road. Especially as the post pushing Yash starts with normally Yash would be town, but... It would've been risky if Schia had actually "gotten" the gun as was his hypothetical situation at some point, to shoot yash. But, I think this was a pretty unrealistic situation anyway. I don't get why Schia said wob was so shootable / to shoot wob. I assume the read changed due to increased activity, but it I do think scum!Schia would want to put sus on a town player who might not otherwise have gotten any spotlight. Similarly, when trying to shoot a peripheral town over a lurker could be a meta point to avoid "gunning" his scumpartner without actually having to consider the poster, only the overall category mechanically. Finally, scum!Schia probably likes to use jargon to make his posts impressive but confusing to other players in the game who don't have as much forum mafia experience.(Don't actually think the tic tac toe was that scummy. It distracted from the game for a bit but it doesn't seem like a pattern to me) From my pov, Scum!Schia would have to put 2 scum out of his POE though, aka himself and the scumpartner. This would probably be ihbst from my perspective, but even from the final 4, a town would have to be shot before the game ends, which would make it pretty unreliable (from the order it seems like it would be ihbst). Do think a scum at this point would want to take some control over the game, as the main wincon right now involves keeping both scum players alive. And that is my Schia wolfcase. For Schia I tried to analyze the thoughts behind his moves, as I do think Schia's post generally have solid reasoning (and also think scum Schia would be capable of writing decent motivation. I have not noticed inconsistencies that would indicate a specific motive though). I'll be around to answer / discuss maybe a little bit longer but fuck ISOs for today. I'll get working on the newsletter now Just gonna take a moment to say that I know we're all having fun with the devil's advocacy/across-the-board scumcasing, but the last person who tried to argue this point was a wolf [x]. I won't make apologies for my vocabulary and anyone who wants to take this point further than Snaq's post here, which was written within the context of Gary's thread exercise, should - respectfully - choke. |
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 23:13:44 GMT
As for the "why is wob so shootable" point: this is probably the most concise version of where my head was at [x]It was a lean I had around the time I started suspecting UTR/peripheral wolfplay & was trying to think about which shots stood a chance of getting a pelt without also killing game momentum or putting town in a situation where they couldn't afford to be wrong, which I think is especially important in a roster like this. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary The Savage on May 27, 2023 23:13:57 GMT
ihbst if I shoot you what happens next?
|
|
|
|
Post by ihbst on May 27, 2023 23:27:25 GMT
well I will probably shoot myan
|
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 23:45:44 GMT
I'll work on Gary's request tn, for now im interested in the interactions with Gary [Schia I discussed yday. Would love to hear perspectives esp on this though] Clemens got into an altercation with Gary, when Gary was a somewhat obvious shot (Yash hadn't really said anything all day and it was the expected shot from Yash). I don't think it'd be smart of scum!Clemens to respond so aggressively to Gary, when he's been more docile for the rest of the game. Not sure if scum!clemens would think of this though. I am more suspicious of ihbst in this context though. He just... didn't answer or engage at all. I guess this is a recurring theme for him this game, but it is getting annoying. Prodigu has very limited interactions with Gary the past few days. He responded to me talking about my interaction with Gary, and responded to clemens when clemens was talking to Gary. But not actually with Gary himself. This wasn't just yesterday, so it wasn't because scum!prod knew Gary was gonna be gunned per se. Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ you asked about wolfcases on prod. How do you feel about what I said? At this point I am getting slightly more worried about the fact that prod feels 'just there' to me. I am getting a bit paranoid and would like a second opinion (if anyone else wants to comment, please do!) I have had very few interactions with Gary (that is true) but i think the opposite is silly to not mention, Gary himself has also not interacted with me all that much as well. I do a lot of commenting yes but id wager a decent amount of these comments are expanding on ideas or presenting new ideas within those comments and presenting thoughts. I let it sit a bit but I feel like now's probably a good time to say that that second line is just one big redundancy. Reading it charitably, though, I will say the problem that style of play isn't that it doesn't pose any new information - although that can be a part of it - it's that it refrains from making waves/making itself vulnerable. Passive play/information-instead-of-analysis type content becomes an issue because not only does it avoid predicating too heavily, it's evasive of hard stances and is generally pretty static.
My biggest concern at the time of my asking for wolfcases on your slot (I'll also stress that I'd wanted them specifically from players purporting to TR you) was that after so many game days, you'd sort of fallen to the backseat position, with a lot of content that was like, well-formed & reasonable from a town perspective (which makes sense in the earlier stages of a game when there's less mechanical info, i.e. flips, to go off of) but not necessarily indicative of your being a villager or disqualifying you from being a wolf. I'd also been hanging onto what Fen said about you not really having exited wolfrange (and at the point of my asking, not having done much that was any different from your posting when he was alive) and thinking about some of the places you'd been shielding slots or else just sort of middling on things gamewise. Bc as it stands I think you've been positioned to be a slot that escapes re-eval, despite having sort of plateaued in towniness and, honestly, increased in wolf equity over time. I think Myan's scumcase on you speaks a lot to what makes your slot problematic (and again, feels extremely partnered in a way that's consistent both with your treatment of Toni preflip and Myan D1-2)
|
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 23:53:51 GMT
As requested ill start to scumcase everyone left in the game at this point Scum!Clems: Overall this slot is the most "SR" or disliked slot in the game currently, due to the nature of their posts and general trolling all throughout the game, and even when asked to provide context or anything of substance they refuse to really do it. All of their posts have either been trolling or extremely surface level thoughts overall, saying "yash or wob shot approved" or something like "i think this shot would work today" but not giving any further reasoning or feedback in terms of this. Scum!ihbst: This slot is similarish, their posts are not trolling (so better than clems already) however many of their thoughts have been similar "i would like this or this shot today" have been the general quality of their posts. I believe yesterday was the only day that their posts added a little bit more substance to them as opposed to other days (this may be because they believed Yash would shoot them). Many times i have asked them to expand on their reasoning for given posts, and it was like pulling teeth to get them to give any form of reasoning for what they have said. This is a slot i would like us to start taking a better look at and i think requires more scrutiny at this point in time. Scum!Wob: Overall this slot has come up at times for being shot, but was never seriously considered, they have the general laid back kinda posting style all game because they have never felt threatened to be shot. I feel as though this slot kinda falls into "never has truly been on the chopping block similarly to me and snaq thus far" overall however idt i can provide a very good scum case on this slot. Scum!Schia: Overall this slot has been met with a LOT of scrutiny all game, from day 1 to 2 to 3. During that time frame they felt as though they had to go on the "defensive" so to speak and were posting a lot and trying to make a lot of observations while at the same time trying to get others that hadnt necessarily said to shoot them to TR or town lean them. Since their shot has become less and less brought up their overall posting has also became less and less so as to feel as though they can be more laid back and dont need to worry about being shot. One thing that has stuck out to me is that they originally had said on the day that Toni was shot that a Yash or Wob shot would be good. Firstly, I had asked them to expand on their reasoning for this which had never come to fruition, and secondly, they never mentioned shooting Toni whom i would argue would have fallen into the same category of lurkiness as Wob and Yash had at that point in time so not bringing up Toni would be quite odd. This was also a way to avoid interaction with that user, so that they would not be connected to them if and when they flipped scum. Next they asked everyone to present a scum case against me, which was interesting but never came back to respond to any of the posts that were made, nor state why they asked to do that. This could be because so far I had never been met with any form of pressure and so they wanted to test me up against this kind of unique pressure to see how I would react, or this would be a way to get people to start presenting scumcases against me as a way of beginning to sow seeds of doubt into my slot to put me onto the shot list.Scum!Snaq: This slot came into the game very quickly, and had to get into the game very quickly to avoid being shot. They became a very large voice and started trying to "lead" town so to speak, in an effort to make sure no one would SR them. They constantly ask for others' opinions and such in order to make themselves seem more towny to get people to not SR them. Scum!Myan: They have been talked about a lot in the beginning of the game, and less so over the course of the game. They kinda fall into a similar category as Schia in which their shot was up a lot, and they started talking a lot more in order to avoid being shot. Since talks about their shot have gone down so has their presence in an effort to make everyone else forget about them. One of the things that I have noticed a lot is they mention "prod is town / townie" in their posts about me, so as a form of buddying me. This could be a genuine town, however i find it weird that its brought up so much. Scum!Prodigu: (Ill present a scum case for myself too) Overall this user has existed and flown under the radar the entirety of the game. A lot of players have expressed some form of thoughts of TR / town lean or "this is not the shot currently" so other players have felt pressured to not question the slot at all which is how they have gotten away with a lot of their actions thus far, and never have fully fallen under scrutiny. Minimal amounts of pressure has been applied to this slot so they feel no need to be defensive at all about not being shot, because there has been no pressure whatsoever. Many of their interactions have never been fully "direct" interactions a lot of what they have said are comments to other players. They probably feel safe to allow town to "shoot themselves" so they can take a laid back approach to being scum, due to never having fallen under any form of scrutiny and allow the game to clean up itself while they watch idly. Who wants to count how many things here aren't true |
|
|
|
Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on May 27, 2023 23:59:42 GMT
Gonna go for a quick climb & then i'm probably out for the night, but one more for the road: |
|
|
|
Post by ihbst on May 28, 2023 0:08:36 GMT
tbh please consider shooting other people since if you get hyper fixated thats like tunneling and lead to me losing that one time why did crespo like this? |
|
|
|
Post by Gary The Savage on May 28, 2023 0:16:28 GMT
tbh please consider shooting other people since if you get hyper fixated thats like tunneling and lead to me losing that one time why did crespo like this? Probs relatable nothing more |
|
