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Post by ForgotToFlush on Nov 6, 2023 5:08:35 GMT
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Post by kliff on Nov 6, 2023 5:35:24 GMT
spieky is revealed to be Town.
Soz Spieky 😭😭 |
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Post by kliff on Nov 6, 2023 20:09:29 GMT
I am the mighty N1 Jailkeeper who threw macdougall in jail  I'll post my claim here so it doesn't get buried in discord. |
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Post by ForgotToFlush on Nov 6, 2023 22:47:48 GMT
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Post by macdougall on Nov 6, 2023 23:10:20 GMT
I think we need to pause the discord posting for a while and do some dedicated posting on the forum. The nature of the discord server and the hidden chats makes mafia less accountable.
My idea would be to not do any discord posting for a period of time each day at least. Thoughts?
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Post by Prodigu on Nov 6, 2023 23:29:44 GMT
Partly also responding to Mac on thoughts on posting here a bit more, and id say yea its worthwhile imo.
Im gonna sum up my current thoughts here:
1) I think from the conversation Mac and Clouds had its given me the impression that these slots are not partnered (at least this is my current thought at the time)
2) I saw some very brief discussion on the topic, but idt weve put much thought into Kliff being Scum JK, or at least i guess im agreeing with what Schia had said earlier in that it was interesting not much thought was put into this possibility, im not sure how we would consider the subject but i think more discussion on the topic wouldnt be bad.
3) I think this is a small thing but its been bugging me enough to attempt to put it into thought, its bugged me that Mac only considered the possibility of him being the other N1 kill target from what I was scrolling through in the discord it didnt seem much thought was put into the possibility of both nightkills going to the same person, im still of the mind both nightkills didnt go to the same person, but interesting not much was put here, or i just missed it
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Nov 6, 2023 23:42:05 GMT
Partly also responding to Mac on thoughts on posting here a bit more, and id say yea its worthwhile imo. Im gonna sum up my current thoughts here: 1) I think from the conversation Mac and Clouds had its given me the impression that these slots are not partnered (at least this is my current thought at the time) 2) I saw some very brief discussion on the topic, but idt weve put much thought into Kliff being Scum JK, or at least i guess im agreeing with what Schia had said earlier in that it was interesting not much thought was put into this possibility, im not sure how we would consider the subject but i think more discussion on the topic wouldnt be bad. 3) I think this is a small thing but its been bugging me enough to attempt to put it into thought, its bugged me that Mac only considered the possibility of him being the other N1 kill target from what I was scrolling through in the discord it didnt seem much thought was put into the possibility of both nightkills going to the same person, im still of the mind both nightkills didnt go to the same person, but interesting not much was put here, or i just missed it the biggest thing that interests me abt point #3 is that clouds was one of (if not the only) person to bring up that possibility before me & mac got at it
i said this briefly earlier but like.... idk there's a level of competency from both parties that makes it Very problematic to go about this day without everybody weighing in as much as they can and talking through each possibility
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Nov 6, 2023 23:44:45 GMT
Was poking fun at this a bit earlier too but also like...... it really is offputting how quickly folks will fall back on "yeah there was too much to read" & i know mac mentioned the dedicated-forum-posting-time (which i do agree with & have said as much) but i do also think that that's just a copout for a lot of folks. the advantage of an oc game is that you can give running commentary, weigh on things in passing, can shift registers a bit etc etc etc like, there's a flexibility that's afforded
and so it's weird to me to see people not taking advantage of that
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Nov 6, 2023 23:57:21 GMT
I'm going to make a list of Entrypoints for Discussion, and if you are someone who falls under the category of "idk what's going on" (larp) or "there's too much to read" (true but still larp bc it's literally always the case) or are just otherwise struggling to make ins, here are some things
RE: NIGHT ACTIONS
-What's the likelihood iyo of kills stacking on Cudds?
-What about Mac being targeted for a nightkill?
-Of a nightkill on Mac coming from Clouds (as opposed to say, me, or any of the other players here with shared game history) as opposed to some rando?
-Or do you think Clouds/Mac could be Wolf/Wolf?
-Or maybe, MAYBE bgb is in fact scum and is roleclaiming while taking advantage of the fact that role and alignment are independent of each other this game?
RE: VOTES
-Yo what's up with the Spieky wagon yesterday, that's weird right? We're all in agreement that that's weird?
-Which of the Spieky-voters do you think were sincere? Which do you think could have come from scum?
-What do you think of literally any of yesterday's vanity wagons? Which have some credibility? Which seem scum-motivated?
MISCELLANY
-You'll notice that a lot of the PL seems to be talking about some of the same players. What's up with that?
-Who do you think isn't getting enough attention? Let's be holistic.
-Do you notice any disparities in some players' privatechat presence vs. some players' general chat presence?
Again, these are less "Hey everyone answer this" questions and more "Literally none of you have any excuse to give *nothing* (with the singular exception of Edj, who has an excuse but also lmao)"
No one should be saying nothing
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Nov 7, 2023 0:01:04 GMT
I'm also going to link my post-game reflections from LastCS a couple years back, which was also multiball OC role madness: ps-mafia.proboards.com/post/69190/threadThe game ended in a very avoidable WW win--which is less to take away from Ayia's play that game and more to stress that it doesn't take much for villages to fall apart (esp if they don't come together in the first place) |
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Post by Prodigu on Nov 7, 2023 0:16:09 GMT
Partly also responding to Mac on thoughts on posting here a bit more, and id say yea its worthwhile imo. Im gonna sum up my current thoughts here: 1) I think from the conversation Mac and Clouds had its given me the impression that these slots are not partnered (at least this is my current thought at the time) 2) I saw some very brief discussion on the topic, but idt weve put much thought into Kliff being Scum JK, or at least i guess im agreeing with what Schia had said earlier in that it was interesting not much thought was put into this possibility, im not sure how we would consider the subject but i think more discussion on the topic wouldnt be bad. 3) I think this is a small thing but its been bugging me enough to attempt to put it into thought, its bugged me that Mac only considered the possibility of him being the other N1 kill target from what I was scrolling through in the discord it didnt seem much thought was put into the possibility of both nightkills going to the same person, im still of the mind both nightkills didnt go to the same person, but interesting not much was put here, or i just missed it the biggest thing that interests me abt point #3 is that clouds was one of (if not the only) person to bring up that possibility before me & mac got at it
i said this briefly earlier but like.... idk there's a level of competency from both parties that makes it Very problematic to go about this day without everybody weighing in as much as they can and talking through each possibility I believe yea Clouds was the only person to bring up the possibility prior to either of you, I had some commentary of my own when Clouds was talking about it but didnt talk about it separately from Clouds bringing it up Ill need to look at what both of you said on the topic which will end up being more scrolling for me in a bit but i do want to weigh in on each possibility here, (ive said a bit on the matter but i think having it in an easier to find place such as here isnt terrible, as well because i have some more thoughts now) I think the possibilities of what occurred last night are essentially what Clouds said in the Mechanics channel, (1) One party idled (2) Both parties NKed same target (3) JK protected a NK target / Jailed Scum (I guess this is just for formalities for myself to keep things organized I feel like i dont have a lot to say / add into Scenario (1), I honestly dont believe either party would idle N1, if anything i think it hurts them to idle N1, I could see them idling on a separate night where there could be PRs in play that would more effectively find scum such as like Tracker for example i guess Scenario (2) is something i think is worth having more consideration into, in light of new information that i found while scrolling through. I never noticed it at first and brought it up earlier today only very briefly but Cuddz did essentially soft / claim N3 Vig which in addition to them "doing stuff" I think could warrant multiple parties wanting the slot out of the game. Theres only one vig in the whole game, and Imo it could pose a decent threat, you could argue (yes) that Scum can just use their fruit festival to take the night action out of the way but i do think it better to just eliminate the role outright and poses less risks. While overall i dont think it overly likely that (2) happened I think theres greater reason as to why it was possible Scenario (3) has been talked about a decent amount in that overall i think the possibility weighs much higher than the other 2, Im unsure what to say more here at the current time, I think this one has the highest possibility I dont think i have the knowledge or insight to really comment on why Mac would be targeted instead of other players other than that a scum player knows how good they can be and the fact that theyd want that slot out to make it an easier time for themselves. |
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Post by Prodigu on Nov 7, 2023 0:30:26 GMT
Was poking fun at this a bit earlier too but also like...... it really is offputting how quickly folks will fall back on "yeah there was too much to read" & i know mac mentioned the dedicated-forum-posting-time (which i do agree with & have said as much) but i do also think that that's just a copout for a lot of folks. the advantage of an oc game is that you can give running commentary, weigh on things in passing, can shift registers a bit etc etc etc like, there's a flexibility that's afforded and so it's weird to me to see people not taking advantage of that I agree and think its dumb saying "too much to read" but I could understand it from a perspective of "Its hard to follow" I think me overall responding here doesnt amount to much, but i figured id put some thoughts to it. I like the ability to kind of be way more flexible using discord instead of solely forum posting, I do think it creates a general environment that most players arent going to be generally used to i guess, like how would i put it, I think you can see it from how i post on forums vs say something in the discord Generally its easier to look at and follow forums compared to discord where it can be harder to look at someones ISO and whatnots if i wanted to search all messages from like myself or you, or idk Clouds or whoever, thats potentially like 100-200 separate messages in 1 discord depending who you are (ik i have a decent number of messages in that discord) Like i said earlier i think "too much to read" is dumb and its an easy way out, i think "harder to follow" is what id say at least for myself |
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Post by Prodigu on Nov 7, 2023 0:38:38 GMT
I'm going to make a list of Entrypoints for Discussion, and if you are someone who falls under the category of "idk what's going on" (larp) or "there's too much to read" (true but still larp bc it's literally always the case) or are just otherwise struggling to make ins, here are some things RE: NIGHT ACTIONS -What's the likelihood iyo of kills stacking on Cudds? -What about Mac being targeted for a nightkill? -Of a nightkill on Mac coming from Clouds (as opposed to say, me, or any of the other players here with shared game history) as opposed to some rando? -Or do you think Clouds/Mac could be Wolf/Wolf? -Or maybe, MAYBE bgb is in fact scum and is roleclaiming while taking advantage of the fact that role and alignment are independent of each other this game? RE: VOTES-Yo what's up with the Spieky wagon yesterday, that's weird right? We're all in agreement that that's weird?
-Which of the Spieky-voters do you think were sincere? Which do you think could have come from scum?
-What do you think of literally any of yesterday's vanity wagons? Which have some credibility? Which seem scum-motivated?MISCELLANY -You'll notice that a lot of the PL seems to be talking about some of the same players. What's up with that? -Who do you think isn't getting enough attention? Let's be holistic. -Do you notice any disparities in some players' privatechat presence vs. some players' general chat presence? Again, these are less "Hey everyone answer this" questions and more "Literally none of you have any excuse to give *nothing* (with the singular exception of Edj, who has an excuse but also lmao)" No one should be saying nothing Im not sure why, but this topic hasnt been broached all that much at all today, and generally something like this is something worth looking into at least a little (honestly dont we usually look at this and talk about it a bit??) so im surprised most people havent actually brought this up all that much (it feels like everyones kinda avoiding it for the most part). A majority of todays discussions have been on the first part of your proposed questions which is why i guess im having this reaction to what you said To start processing my own thoughts I think theres definitely merit that there couldve been 1-2 scum on the Spieky wagon. I think the one genuine person that I really saw voting Spieky D1 was Clouds, i think everyone else went "hmm yes Spieky definitely scum slipped" "lets nod our heads with Clouds and settle on this for D1" at least i honestly didnt see a ton of discussion i guess which will have you questioning me to: "who on the Spieky wagon wasnt sincere then" which is something worth further evaluation outside of this singular post |
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Post by Fame on Nov 7, 2023 1:27:07 GMT
I'm going to make a list of Entrypoints for Discussion, and if you are someone who falls under the category of "idk what's going on" (larp) or "there's too much to read" (true but still larp bc it's literally always the case) or are just otherwise struggling to make ins, here are some things RE: NIGHT ACTIONS -What's the likelihood iyo of kills stacking on Cudds? -What about Mac being targeted for a nightkill? -Of a nightkill on Mac coming from Clouds (as opposed to say, me, or any of the other players here with shared game history) as opposed to some rando? -Or do you think Clouds/Mac could be Wolf/Wolf? (1)-Or maybe, MAYBE bgb is in fact scum and is roleclaiming while taking advantage of the fact that role and alignment are independent of each other this game? (2)RE: VOTES -Yo what's up with the Spieky wagon yesterday, that's weird right? We're all in agreement that that's weird? -Which of the Spieky-voters do you think were sincere? Which do you think could have come from scum? (3)-What do you think of literally any of yesterday's vanity wagons? Which have some credibility? Which seem scum-motivated? MISCELLANY -You'll notice that a lot of the PL seems to be talking about some of the same players. What's up with that? -Who do you think isn't getting enough attention? Let's be holistic. (4)-Do you notice any disparities in some players' privatechat presence vs. some players' general chat presence? Again, these are less "Hey everyone answer this" questions and more "Literally none of you have any excuse to give *nothing* (with the singular exception of Edj, who has an excuse but also lmao)" No one should be saying nothing See: bolds 1) If true then unpartnered, with the way today is going it seems hugely disadvantageous for them to be s/s in the same faction and put themselves in a position where one of them could potentially go to resolve a 'was mac the scum sending kill and got jailkept or was he targeted as the nk?' angle. Still 14 (?) players so just seems risky to generate controversy between them and be the topic of conversation. 2) Not sure how possible this is but worth noting that we still don't know the roles discarded which I think gives a lot of opportunity for scum to fakeclaim early since they're at info advantage in that regard. With roles distributed throughout the nights it seems like a fantastic opportunity for scum to hide in the background after D1 with an unverified roleclaim + avoid future rolecops. There's a small window where discarded jailkeeper N1 + an idled kill would be a really smart play for Mafia since it gives a lot of towncred ig but idk, could always kill anyways and claim the jailkeep on someone else. 3 & 4) Combining these because they're intertwined. Wasn't a lot of discussion around the incentive for a Cuddz NK aside from the soft that Prod picked up on (a good catch btw). Kinda odd that 3/4 of the people I'm about to mention were scumread by the person NKd and no one bothered to look into these but ^-^ 0 discussion around Myan's slot and not a lot of activity from them either other than a weak scumread on Callahan (iirc). I would kind of expect something more substantial from Myan ATP but there's nothing raising green flags for me rn. Also listed in Cuddz's scumreads right before dying so (?) Haven't really seen a lot of progression in the NewsDan slot after being subtly towncored by Clouds for his initial lack of involvement in the discord. Lots of "wait why do you townread [x]?" and "let me read [x]" with very little follow up from them. Also listed in Cuddz's scumreads right before dying (?) Litt mentioned IAVH is usually a slot that sticks out like a sore thumb early on and catches a lot of flack but they're kind of in the background this game and not really adding anything of value. I don't think it's worth letting them coast w/ that. They had a veryyyy lazy vote on the Spieky wagon too with little input. Maybe good they're not overcompensating / acting nervous though which is a trend for them I think. Litt could be either alignment to me rn. Seemed super confident in Spieky flipping Mafia which I'm gonna say is a good sign since he could've easily placed a flippant vote and said nothing like IAVH. Don't think Litt/NewsDan are partnered here (see Discord logs between them) but Litt seems kind of neutral on that slot despite rightfully thinking his Spieky wagon interactions were subpar. Also listed in Cuddz's scumreads right before dying (?) |
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Post by Fame on Nov 7, 2023 1:29:18 GMT
Just to edit into that post because I fucked up a bit:
* Haven't really seen a lot of progression in the NewsDan slot after being subtly towncored by Clouds for his initial lack of involvement in the discord. Lots of "wait why do you townread [x]?" and "let me read [x]" with very little follow up from them. Also listed in Cuddz's scumreads right before dying (?) Litt mentioned their interactions with the Spieky wagon seemed performative and I agree w/ that.
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Post by MyanMario on Nov 7, 2023 2:30:18 GMT
vote Gary
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Post by macdougall on Nov 7, 2023 2:50:56 GMT
Partly also responding to Mac on thoughts on posting here a bit more, and id say yea its worthwhile imo. Im gonna sum up my current thoughts here: 1) I think from the conversation Mac and Clouds had its given me the impression that these slots are not partnered (at least this is my current thought at the time) 2) I saw some very brief discussion on the topic, but idt weve put much thought into Kliff being Scum JK, or at least i guess im agreeing with what Schia had said earlier in that it was interesting not much thought was put into this possibility, im not sure how we would consider the subject but i think more discussion on the topic wouldnt be bad. 3) I think this is a small thing but its been bugging me enough to attempt to put it into thought, its bugged me that Mac only considered the possibility of him being the other N1 kill target from what I was scrolling through in the discord it didnt seem much thought was put into the possibility of both nightkills going to the same person, im still of the mind both nightkills didnt go to the same person, but interesting not much was put here, or i just missed it Fair enough on point 3. I'm a bit of a big ego in mafia so the idea that I got targeted by a wolf team on n1 is pretty easy for me to fall into the trap of. I can't speak to whether the person who caught the n1 was a big enough threat to eat both kills, but if they were then yeah totally viable. Schia raises the idea that Clouds might have actually been reacting in a bit of a "caught for bad reasons" way for pointing that out the way they did, mind. |
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Post by macdougall on Nov 7, 2023 2:53:48 GMT
Partly also responding to Mac on thoughts on posting here a bit more, and id say yea its worthwhile imo. Im gonna sum up my current thoughts here: 1) I think from the conversation Mac and Clouds had its given me the impression that these slots are not partnered (at least this is my current thought at the time) 2) I saw some very brief discussion on the topic, but idt weve put much thought into Kliff being Scum JK, or at least i guess im agreeing with what Schia had said earlier in that it was interesting not much thought was put into this possibility, im not sure how we would consider the subject but i think more discussion on the topic wouldnt be bad. 3) I think this is a small thing but its been bugging me enough to attempt to put it into thought, its bugged me that Mac only considered the possibility of him being the other N1 kill target from what I was scrolling through in the discord it didnt seem much thought was put into the possibility of both nightkills going to the same person, im still of the mind both nightkills didnt go to the same person, but interesting not much was put here, or i just missed it the biggest thing that interests me abt point #3 is that clouds was one of (if not the only) person to bring up that possibility before me & mac got at it
i said this briefly earlier but like.... idk there's a level of competency from both parties that makes it Very problematic to go about this day without everybody weighing in as much as they can and talking through each possibility
You are basically saying that because Clouds and I are good players that people should care a lot about resolving this? Should they not care if we were not? Or, should that not care about us and our competence without it? You're kind of trying to force logic here and I'm not sure I understand why? Are you just trying to ensure that we don't skate by if the information is there to catch us? Cuz that's entirely fair, but the way you're choosing to express it is kind of needlessly heady? |
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Post by macdougall on Nov 7, 2023 2:54:26 GMT
Was poking fun at this a bit earlier too but also like...... it really is offputting how quickly folks will fall back on "yeah there was too much to read" & i know mac mentioned the dedicated-forum-posting-time (which i do agree with & have said as much) but i do also think that that's just a copout for a lot of folks. the advantage of an oc game is that you can give running commentary, weigh on things in passing, can shift registers a bit etc etc etc like, there's a flexibility that's afforded and so it's weird to me to see people not taking advantage of that Who hasn't taken advantage of that and by weird do you mean suspicious? |
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Post by macdougall on Nov 7, 2023 2:58:06 GMT
Was poking fun at this a bit earlier too but also like...... it really is offputting how quickly folks will fall back on "yeah there was too much to read" & i know mac mentioned the dedicated-forum-posting-time (which i do agree with & have said as much) but i do also think that that's just a copout for a lot of folks. the advantage of an oc game is that you can give running commentary, weigh on things in passing, can shift registers a bit etc etc etc like, there's a flexibility that's afforded and so it's weird to me to see people not taking advantage of that I agree and think its dumb saying "too much to read" but I could understand it from a perspective of "Its hard to follow" I think me overall responding here doesnt amount to much, but i figured id put some thoughts to it. I like the ability to kind of be way more flexible using discord instead of solely forum posting, I do think it creates a general environment that most players arent going to be generally used to i guess, like how would i put it, I think you can see it from how i post on forums vs say something in the discord Generally its easier to look at and follow forums compared to discord where it can be harder to look at someones ISO and whatnots if i wanted to search all messages from like myself or you, or idk Clouds or whoever, thats potentially like 100-200 separate messages in 1 discord depending who you are (ik i have a decent number of messages in that discord) Like i said earlier i think "too much to read" is dumb and its an easy way out, i think "harder to follow" is what id say at least for myself My intent in recommending putting down discord in favour of forums was really so that the town that have genuine curiosity and desire to solve revealed themselves and if the only thing I get out of it is that you are fairly strongly townie now, it was worth it. |
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Post by litteleven on Nov 7, 2023 3:13:31 GMT
I'm going to make a list of Entrypoints for Discussion, and if you are someone who falls under the category of "idk what's going on" (larp) or "there's too much to read" (true but still larp bc it's literally always the case) or are just otherwise struggling to make ins, here are some things RE: NIGHT ACTIONS -What's the likelihood iyo of kills stacking on Cudds? -What about Mac being targeted for a nightkill? -Of a nightkill on Mac coming from Clouds (as opposed to say, me, or any of the other players here with shared game history) as opposed to some rando? -Or do you think Clouds/Mac could be Wolf/Wolf? -Or maybe, MAYBE bgb is in fact scum and is roleclaiming while taking advantage of the fact that role and alignment are independent of each other this game? RE: VOTES -Yo what's up with the Spieky wagon yesterday, that's weird right? We're all in agreement that that's weird? -Which of the Spieky-voters do you think were sincere? Which do you think could have come from scum? -What do you think of literally any of yesterday's vanity wagons? Which have some credibility? Which seem scum-motivated? MISCELLANY -You'll notice that a lot of the PL seems to be talking about some of the same players. What's up with that? -Who do you think isn't getting enough attention? Let's be holistic. -Do you notice any disparities in some players' privatechat presence vs. some players' general chat presence? Again, these are less "Hey everyone answer this" questions and more "Literally none of you have any excuse to give *nothing* (with the singular exception of Edj, who has an excuse but also lmao)" No one should be saying nothing - decently likely, cuddz was (whether i like it or not) focal town for d1, slightly unlikelier from fame!w type teams cause of how n1 went i feel - same odds as rand, i don't think there are people who fearkill mac in this pl or perceived their slot differently d1 - i think clouds has been in his comfort zone as town and when pushed out of it (#claims) had a decent reaction i think too - not a real thought for me; pressure dropped off from #claims, i don't think calling them possibly paired is damning but as long as clouds passes the vibe bar there's no real point - info seems plausible + soft push happened on mac from kliff, bgb jking mac seems to be the truth and i think scum would use it as a doc first in multiball if they had rolled it - contro from me but don't think spieky wagon was really weird, lots of votes piled but under influence of a slip; didn't seem really unreasonable to me to pile votes on a person who slipped cause you'd re-evaluate if they came clean but hold on till then, which didn't happen - for the same reason i don't have comments to make @ sincerity; if i had to tier votes from best to worst it'd be dan > fame > iavh in terms of their progress since wrt that vote - i think peng's vote on fame is the only one alive there with real credibility behind it? likeliest to be from town trying to make progress against inevitable spieky vote; not much respect for cuddz's vote there from me; rest seem !random, if there's substance i'd be glad to listen ending at misc stuff cause i don't know what to put there atm |
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Post by kliff on Nov 7, 2023 3:18:30 GMT
Vote Sayggtome
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Post by kliff on Nov 7, 2023 3:36:59 GMT
There are time where I read thru saygg Iso and I just always get a vibe that they are actively trying to imitate a gameplay that they believed to be town. There been
a couple times when I read them in chat and its sometimes just feel like their fake solving or trying to troll/meme their way into towncore. This been my gut read since day 1 so ill stick with it.
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Post by PenguinD on Nov 7, 2023 3:54:19 GMT
vote iavh
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Post by Clouds on Nov 7, 2023 3:55:14 GMT
vote iavh
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