Analysis of Post Workshop game 12/23/2017
Dec 24, 2017 5:19:54 GMT
hawkiee, qtball, and 2 more like this
Post by ForgotToFlush on Dec 24, 2017 5:19:54 GMT
pastebin.com/Snukp31c
Game in question^
Players11: Blanche Night, bluegummybear, Bored_6886, DurzaOffTopic (subbed out for EpicCreeper9002), Edgar Allan Poem, EnzoLapras, ForgotTo Flush, hawkie, MMM ☾, ScorrchingTheaph, Thunder~BALLZ
Theme: Modified Nomination (Game alternates between Modexe days and nomination days)
Game Summary:
Day 1 [line 7] (Modexe Day):3m given gun, shoots Blanche night.
Day 2 [line 118] (Nomination Day): 3m, Hawkie, Durza nommed. Durza slot lynched.
Day 3 [line 322] (MD): EAP given gun, shoots Enzo.
Day 4 [line 514] (ND): 3m, Hawkie, Scorch nommed. Scorch lynched.
Day 5 [line 639] (MD): BGB given gun, shoots Bored.
Day 6 [line 841] (ND): 3m, Hawkie, Thunder nommed. Thunder lynched.
Day 7 [line 902] (MD): 3m given gun, shoots EAP.
Day 8 [line 1170] (ND): 3m, Hawkie, BGB nommed. BGB lynched.
Day 9 [line 1383] (MD) {LyLo} : FTF given gun, shoots Hawkie.
GG Town
Okay so the trends here are very apparent. The same nomming style was used the whole game, and not a single lynch flipped corrupt.
Hawkie and co. did an amazing job of not giving town any leeway, and prevented anything from slipping through the cracks by taking away anything useful that the theme could provide.
Specifically:
-The noms always funneled town into picking the least of 3 evils. By nomming 3 players, all who are viewed to have the same caliber, repeatedly, nothing could be gained from analyzing the wagons. It always provided a uniform opinion and essentially took away a scum-hunting option. You could not look at any of the nommy wagons and suggest a bad reason for someone being on them.
-I have no idea what the corrupts were but I'm inclined to believe a similar strategy was used. Not a single wagon flipped corrupt so nothing could be gained from analyzing wagons on modexe days either.
Just the inherent brilliance in these two plays alone made this game difficult. But furthermore:
-Hawkie made it his bloody mission to make himself and 3m indistinguishable. They were practically feeding off of each other the whole game until close to LyLo. This is where the important distinction comes in.
Basically my whole theory was town was being apprehended, not by killing power players, but by playing for a LyLo Hawkie was slowly constructing. I lurked for most of the game until Day 7, because I was struggling to wrap my head around what the noms meant. At that point I had given up on trying to figure it out so I was okay with getting shot on the footsteps in LyLo, because town would get more reads without me lurking through the whole game. However, before that could happen I had a breakthrough:
[20:19:44] ForgotTo Flush: HOLD ON
[20:20:09] ForgotTo Flush: The noms are fucking working
[20:20:12] ForgotTo Flush: Because evefyone
[20:20:15] ForgotTo Flush: Everyone*
[20:20:19] ForgotTo Flush: Is second guessing
[20:20:26] ForgotTo Flush: Except for the read on me
[20:21:53] ForgotTo Flush: There hasnt been anything solid
[20:22:01] ForgotTo Flush: With the traditional framing device
[20:22:05] ForgotTo Flush: Of the theme
[20:22:07] ForgotTo Flush: To sggest
[20:25:17] ForgotTo Flush: that the choices being made are concrete
I was typing real fast on mobile so it came out real wangly but what I was saying is that it wasn't as clear cut and simple as we thought. It wasn't simply about taking out power players, more-so about railroading choices to dodge suspicion.
Then there were the Day 8 noms. I kept to my theory and started analyzing what would happen in each hypothetical LyLo scenario. The reason I was looking at this before thinking about the lynch was because the possibilities in LyLo would indicate who was pushing who and why. However the theorycrafting was too hard so I left it alone and lynched bgb :I (surprisingly enough the hammer on bgb still sticks with the recurring railroaded decisions theme.)
Anyways we have a LyLo situation, the one I thought was most likely to occur too.
This is when I revisited the theorycrafting to see who would setup what LyLo
[20:40:35] ForgotTo Flush: who guns who
3m: wants to gun ftf to shoot Hawkie
Hawkie: wants to gun self/3m to shoot ftf
And this is where the fallacy appears. Hawkie spent so much time setting himself up alongside 3m to appear townie, that when we reach a LyLo situation he has no choice but to push me. He did his best to force a read out but his prior push on BGB confirmed that he pretty much tried constructing the whole thing. But the fact that this small sliver of evidence, which was all based on my pipe dream theory, was the only meaningful reason to shoot Hawkie over 3m, shows just how well this was set up.
All in all, this game was amazing for both sides, and culminated in a LyLo between two players who were near indistinguishable. I don't think I'd ever see a game on this site that could interweave as many subtle elements as this one has. I've only discussed the night actions too, there are still all the things done during the lynch phases that made Hawkie appear town until the very end.
So yeah that's my take on this whole thing, was a goddamn blessing to play a game this amazing. Took me nearly 50 minutes of intense concentration to finally figure out what was going on, and even then I had to fight out from being uni sr-ed to prove my point. Pretty satisfactory experience.
God Bless Y'all
Game in question^
Players11: Blanche Night, bluegummybear, Bored_6886, DurzaOffTopic (subbed out for EpicCreeper9002), Edgar Allan Poem, EnzoLapras, ForgotTo Flush, hawkie, MMM ☾, ScorrchingTheaph, Thunder~BALLZ
Theme: Modified Nomination (Game alternates between Modexe days and nomination days)
Game Summary:
Day 1 [line 7] (Modexe Day):3m given gun, shoots Blanche night.
Day 2 [line 118] (Nomination Day): 3m, Hawkie, Durza nommed. Durza slot lynched.
Day 3 [line 322] (MD): EAP given gun, shoots Enzo.
Day 4 [line 514] (ND): 3m, Hawkie, Scorch nommed. Scorch lynched.
Day 5 [line 639] (MD): BGB given gun, shoots Bored.
Day 6 [line 841] (ND): 3m, Hawkie, Thunder nommed. Thunder lynched.
Day 7 [line 902] (MD): 3m given gun, shoots EAP.
Day 8 [line 1170] (ND): 3m, Hawkie, BGB nommed. BGB lynched.
Day 9 [line 1383] (MD) {LyLo} : FTF given gun, shoots Hawkie.
GG Town
Okay so the trends here are very apparent. The same nomming style was used the whole game, and not a single lynch flipped corrupt.
Hawkie and co. did an amazing job of not giving town any leeway, and prevented anything from slipping through the cracks by taking away anything useful that the theme could provide.
Specifically:
-The noms always funneled town into picking the least of 3 evils. By nomming 3 players, all who are viewed to have the same caliber, repeatedly, nothing could be gained from analyzing the wagons. It always provided a uniform opinion and essentially took away a scum-hunting option. You could not look at any of the nommy wagons and suggest a bad reason for someone being on them.
-I have no idea what the corrupts were but I'm inclined to believe a similar strategy was used. Not a single wagon flipped corrupt so nothing could be gained from analyzing wagons on modexe days either.
Just the inherent brilliance in these two plays alone made this game difficult. But furthermore:
-Hawkie made it his bloody mission to make himself and 3m indistinguishable. They were practically feeding off of each other the whole game until close to LyLo. This is where the important distinction comes in.
Basically my whole theory was town was being apprehended, not by killing power players, but by playing for a LyLo Hawkie was slowly constructing. I lurked for most of the game until Day 7, because I was struggling to wrap my head around what the noms meant. At that point I had given up on trying to figure it out so I was okay with getting shot on the footsteps in LyLo, because town would get more reads without me lurking through the whole game. However, before that could happen I had a breakthrough:
[20:19:44] ForgotTo Flush: HOLD ON
[20:20:09] ForgotTo Flush: The noms are fucking working
[20:20:12] ForgotTo Flush: Because evefyone
[20:20:15] ForgotTo Flush: Everyone*
[20:20:19] ForgotTo Flush: Is second guessing
[20:20:26] ForgotTo Flush: Except for the read on me
[20:21:53] ForgotTo Flush: There hasnt been anything solid
[20:22:01] ForgotTo Flush: With the traditional framing device
[20:22:05] ForgotTo Flush: Of the theme
[20:22:07] ForgotTo Flush: To sggest
[20:25:17] ForgotTo Flush: that the choices being made are concrete
I was typing real fast on mobile so it came out real wangly but what I was saying is that it wasn't as clear cut and simple as we thought. It wasn't simply about taking out power players, more-so about railroading choices to dodge suspicion.
Then there were the Day 8 noms. I kept to my theory and started analyzing what would happen in each hypothetical LyLo scenario. The reason I was looking at this before thinking about the lynch was because the possibilities in LyLo would indicate who was pushing who and why. However the theorycrafting was too hard so I left it alone and lynched bgb :I (surprisingly enough the hammer on bgb still sticks with the recurring railroaded decisions theme.)
Anyways we have a LyLo situation, the one I thought was most likely to occur too.
This is when I revisited the theorycrafting to see who would setup what LyLo
[20:40:35] ForgotTo Flush: who guns who
3m: wants to gun ftf to shoot Hawkie
Hawkie: wants to gun self/3m to shoot ftf
And this is where the fallacy appears. Hawkie spent so much time setting himself up alongside 3m to appear townie, that when we reach a LyLo situation he has no choice but to push me. He did his best to force a read out but his prior push on BGB confirmed that he pretty much tried constructing the whole thing. But the fact that this small sliver of evidence, which was all based on my pipe dream theory, was the only meaningful reason to shoot Hawkie over 3m, shows just how well this was set up.
All in all, this game was amazing for both sides, and culminated in a LyLo between two players who were near indistinguishable. I don't think I'd ever see a game on this site that could interweave as many subtle elements as this one has. I've only discussed the night actions too, there are still all the things done during the lynch phases that made Hawkie appear town until the very end.
So yeah that's my take on this whole thing, was a goddamn blessing to play a game this amazing. Took me nearly 50 minutes of intense concentration to finally figure out what was going on, and even then I had to fight out from being uni sr-ed to prove my point. Pretty satisfactory experience.
God Bless Y'all
