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Post by Alexander489 on Jul 28, 2019 23:58:54 GMT
Let's talk about Discard Meta. In IDEA setups, especially in the common theme Greater Idea, people use player's discards as a method of scumhunting. Do you feel like this is a valid scumhunting tool or do you feel like it takes away the purpose of playing the game and manufacturing the reads yourself. Does it even help town? Is it even valid / accurate?
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Post by Alexander489 on Jul 29, 2019 0:00:17 GMT
I know Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ has weighed in on this in the past, and probably has a lot to say about it, but I would love to hear other's opinions as well
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Jul 29, 2019 0:02:16 GMT
What an amazing thread idea. Alex is honestly such an icon.
I'm gonna shut my entire self up so that someone else can give their take but lemme tell y'all I got 'PINIONS
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Post by ForgotToFlush on Jul 29, 2019 3:42:48 GMT
It's damning in super certain situations which ends up actually being kinda harming to gameplay Like maybe I don't want to play Weak Jailkeeper but I get scumread for not picking a role that ultimately gives me less chances to be proactive
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Post by qtball on Jul 29, 2019 4:14:59 GMT
The only discard meta that matters
Is that I never discard town for scum (only accidentally :3)
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Aug 1, 2019 13:24:04 GMT
The only discard meta that matters Is that I never discard town for scum (only accidentally :3) nerd
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Aug 1, 2019 13:53:27 GMT
Discardmeta is a sham. I despise playing as doctor, and you don't get to put entirely disproportionate amounts of pressure on me for discarding it, or bloodhound, or any other PR whose absence from the game you consider to be a mortal sin just because you can't make reads without night actions. Did you ever stop to think that the scumhunting-cheatcode role you're putting so much stock in is entirely useless if it gets N1NKed? No? Didn't think so. Anyway. At best, it's a mediocre metric for gauging the credibility of a claim or for guiding an RVS vote. Any desired utility ends there. Certain players' near-ritualistic dependency on discardmeta is symptomatic of towns' larger difficulties with balancing scumhunting with controlled distribution of information, which are both extremely important elements of semi-OSes and role madness setups. Ideas are both, so things get messy quickly if you're reckless. And with discardmeta, it has this nasty habit of turning into either this or this.
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Post by qtball on Aug 2, 2019 0:06:49 GMT
My thoughts in a nutshell is I don’t play roles I play factions, and if I for some reason play differently as doc than VT than I’m doing something wrong
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Post by Schiavetto ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ on Aug 5, 2019 14:26:04 GMT
From today's 9a fish: Day 1. The hammer count is set at 6
[09:10:15] Players (11): ToiletBro2, Litt♥Eleven, Car licker, sporeisgayaf69, Azi~ziller, ba ttler444, Latios220044, micromorphic, Hgcrafter247, YashGreninja, ougodzz
The deadline has been set for 10 minutes.
[09:10:17] micromorphic has lynched ToiletBro2.
[09:10:18] sporeisgayaf69: toiletbro2 why u discard jk ?
[09:10:19] Car licker has lynched YashGreninja.
[09:10:20] +YashGreninja: Car licker why would you want to lynch me for my discard when ToiletBro2 literally discarded Jailkeeper? lol
[09:10:20] micromorphic: can we just
Revealing of roles has been disabled.
[09:10:20] Hgcrafter247 has lynched Litt♥Eleven.
[09:10:22] Car licker: YashGreninja: Fruit Vendor
[09:10:25] YashGreninja has lynched ToiletBro2.
[09:10:26] %ZeitoKrabby: PlurNoX
[09:10:27] Car licker: Fruit vendor OP
[09:10:28] Litt♥Eleven: hi
[09:10:28] micromorphic: jailkeeper discard
[09:10:29] Azi~ziller has lynched ToiletBro2.
[09:10:30] micromorphic: lol
[09:10:30] Litt♥Eleven has lynched ba ttler444.
[09:10:31] Latios220044: >Hg discarding Mason
[09:10:33] Hgcrafter247: fruit vendor is high iq role
[09:10:35] ougodzz: odee
[09:10:38] ougodzz has lynched ToiletBro2.
[09:10:38] +YashGreninja: Car licker fruit vendor is not good lmao
[09:10:38] sporeisgayaf69: fruit vendor is not a bad discard
[09:10:39] Azi~ziller: Toilet sppote Latios yash
[09:10:39] micromorphic: latios is pmetaing a discard
[09:10:39] Car licker: Jailkeeper sucks
[09:10:40] micromorphic: wtf
[09:10:44] micromorphic: >jailkeeper sucks
[09:10:46] micromorphic: also
[09:10:49] sporeisgayaf69: mason is not bad its just
[09:10:49] Car licker: fruit vendor is for man
[09:10:50] micromorphic: ougodzz: Mafia Godfather
[09:10:51] Azi~ziller: Jksucks
[09:10:52] micromorphic: we can note this
[09:10:56] micromorphic: Car licker: Mafia Seer
[09:10:57] ba ttler444: Alright guys
[09:10:58] micromorphic: this is decent
[09:10:59] Latios220044: Pmetaing discard?
[09:10:59] sporeisgayaf69: doesnt have a high chance of having other mason
[09:11:02] micromorphic: Litt♥Eleven: Solo Wild Card Greater Idea
[09:11:03] Hgcrafter247: mason is rarely useful cuz there is almost never other masons
[09:11:03] +YashGreninja: Aziz what?
[09:11:05] micromorphic: this is good
[09:11:05] Hgcrafter247: and if there is
[09:11:06] Latios220044: that wasn't this roll though pol
[09:11:07] Hgcrafter247: they just say
[09:11:07] ToiletBro2: oof people are trying to pressure me
[09:11:08] Hgcrafter247: ur ww mason
[09:11:10] ba ttler444: Can we stop using discard meta
[09:11:11] sporeisgayaf69: smfh
[09:11:12] Litt♥Eleven: micro not as good as my current role
[09:11:13] micromorphic: these discards are smh
[09:11:15] Latios220044 has lynched ToiletBro2.
[09:11:15] Litt♥Eleven: :softing:
[09:11:15] micromorphic: okay litt
[09:11:16] ba ttler444: maybe they have a stronger town role
[09:11:17] ba ttler444: ?
[09:11:17] sporeisgayaf69: jk doesnt succ
[09:11:19] Latios220044: >turbo
[09:11:23] micromorphic: you could roll bloodhound or hider but okay
[09:11:28] Car licker has unlynched YashGreninja.
[09:11:29] +YashGreninja: battler what’s stronger than JK tho
[09:11:32] micromorphic: ^
[09:11:33] ougodzz: toiletbro2 any claims?
[09:11:33] ba ttler444: Imagine a bloodhound jailkeeper roll
[09:11:33] sporeisgayaf69: uhh guys dont turbo yet smfh
[09:11:34] +YashGreninja: JK is a protective role
[09:11:34] Latios220044: Toilet bro claim
[09:11:37] Car licker: Blood hound
[09:11:39] ToiletBro2: Well no
[09:11:39] ba ttler444: yash bh
[09:11:39] Car licker: vt
[09:11:43] Car licker: black goo
[09:11:45] sporeisgayaf69: >well no
[09:11:45] ToiletBro2: I don't see why I would claim
[09:11:48] sporeisgayaf69: bro
[09:11:53] ToiletBro2: no one is actually going to hammer
[09:11:53] Hgcrafter247: cuz ur about to die XD
[09:11:53] sporeisgayaf69: u discard is scummy af
[09:11:53] Latios220044: I can say my role is better than the other :3
[09:11:55] micromorphic: you're at l-1
[09:11:55] +YashGreninja: battler ok what are the odds that he got that
[09:11:58] micromorphic: also latios is being scummy
[09:12:00] sporeisgayaf69: we will lynch u if u dont claim
[09:12:04] ba ttler444: Yash we don’t know
[09:12:05] ToiletBro2: really?
[09:12:07] Latios220044: >Latios is being scummy
[09:12:09] ba ttler444: until he claims
[09:12:09] ougodzz: toiletbro2 you are about to die
[09:12:10] micromorphic: yes
[09:12:14] Latios220044: you really don't want to lynch me
[09:12:19] Car licker: Tooletbro claim if your hider
[09:12:20] ba ttler444: But
[09:12:22] ToiletBro2: You really don't want me to claim
[09:12:23] sporeisgayaf69: my guy toiletbro2
[09:12:23] Hgcrafter247: latios
[09:12:24] ba ttler444: he should clam
[09:12:26] Hgcrafter247: nbm
[09:12:27] Hgcrafter247: nvm*
[09:12:27] sporeisgayaf69: u are about to die
[09:12:29] sporeisgayaf69: pls claim
[09:12:29] micromorphic: no i wanna lynch this
[09:12:30] Hgcrafter247: misread something
[09:12:31] Latios220044: I'm more important than you think
[09:12:33] ToiletBro2: fine
[09:12:34] sporeisgayaf69 has lynched ToiletBro2.
Hammer! ToiletBro2 was lynched!
Lynches (Hammer: 6)
6* ToiletBro2 (micromorphic, YashGreninja, Azi~ziller, ougodzz, Latios220044, sporeisgayaf69)
1 Litt♥Eleven (Hgcrafter247)
1 ba ttler444 (Litt♥Eleven)
ToiletBro2 was eliminated!
Night 1. PM the host your action, or idle.
[09:12:45] %ZeitoKrabby: Doctor This is why I drink.
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Aug 9, 2019 4:50:31 GMT
discard meta when combined with player meta is broken, specifically for people (like myself) who will never pick scum over town, because when those people have a discard of town it essentially confirms them as town.
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Post by micromorphic on Nov 10, 2019 13:08:26 GMT
i'm a little late to this
i used to discard meta a lot because that's really all i have to go on for the beginning of the day.
as town, discard meta isn't really the best way to tunnel someone d1. some people have roles that the prefer over other roles therefore they pick it even if they discard a really good town role. it's just better to determine someone's alignment using the role they claim instead of just using their discard.
as scum, discard meta is too easy to get away with. it's like too easy to hard push someone d1 for their discard and when they claim, just "[Role] > [Role]?" and normally people don't get off. it also makes it easier to distance from your partner a little when you just focus on one person the whole day, making yourself harder to read later on.
all in all, discard meta really shouldn't be something that town relies on.
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Post by Kaif on Nov 10, 2019 13:11:56 GMT
discard meta is hilarious u only see idiots use it
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Post by micromorphic on Nov 10, 2019 13:19:01 GMT
also let's say i rolled Mafia Clairvoyant / Mafia Clairvoyant. day start comes and i can just claim clairvoyant and say the alignments and people instantly tr me because "there is no way he got mafia clairvoyant twice". it's like instantly being appointed town leader as scum. and let's say i roll Tracker / Tracker. if i claim tracker with my results, people sr me because of the previous reason. "there's no way he got tracker twice, probably mafia tracker.
i see this less often but it should still be noted for. using luck with their discard to determine if someone is town or not shouldn't exist
both of these scenarios has happened to me so that's why i chose.
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Post by motogp on Dec 25, 2019 17:43:36 GMT
as a person who used to abuse discard meta a lot, it's much,much easier to pick the correct rvs this way.that being said,it should be used wisely and you should rarely base late game scumreads on it.it could be argued that players dont learn to actually scumhunt,but,through this,it opens up great plays from scum
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Post by creamykitty on Jan 10, 2020 21:02:24 GMT
Easy way to lynch town D1
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