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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 23, 2022 1:19:49 GMT
(First time making one of these posts, bear with me)
Venice Mafia- A theme about the blackmailer role being Mafia's main form of killing!
Rolelist: 6x Tourist, 1x Fragile Tracker, 1x Fragile Whitemailer | 1x Mafia Roleblocker/stopper, 1x Mafia Goon
Mechanics:
-Blackmailing (/mafia dt blackmailer) is Mafia’s factional kill
-Tourist is compulsive, and so are the other Town PRs.
-If Mafia blackmail somebody who targets them, they do not die.
-The Roleblocker/stopper does affect the Tourists.
-Mafia cannot blackmail themselves.
-Fragile is not affected by Mafia's blackmail.
-Roleblocker/stopper: Roleblocks AND Rolestops 1 PERSON. Think of it as a JK, but doesn't block kills.
-If the Mafia Goon's partner dies, they get to inherit either Roleblocker or Rolestopper (their choice).
As this theme is finished and no more seems to need to be added, I shall use this link for the theme.
A theme by mymemoryisbad with some input from the people down below. :3
*Everything on Mechanics has been finalized and there is a mafia dt for everything except Roleblocker/stopper which I explained in mechanics.
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Post by iavh on Dec 23, 2022 9:34:51 GMT
Scumteam too OP? 2 prs either roleblocked or rolestopped per night. What if we made one scum weaker (like roleblocker to goon) or make it that they don't have factional communication and only rolestopper can do the blackmailing but can only choose between one action then the other scum inherits the kill when rolestopper dies?
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 23, 2022 16:53:34 GMT
Scumteam too OP? 2 prs either roleblocked or rolestopped per night. What if we made one scum weaker (like roleblocker to goon) or make it that they don't have factional communication and only rolestopper can do the blackmailing but can only choose between one action then the other scum inherits the kill when rolestopper dies? note that its also 2v8 which numbers wise is more townsided, scum has these stronger prs to make up for that inbalance also in terms of having only one person do the blackmail it really wouldnt make much of a difference as everybody is visiting somebody and if maf rolestops a pr that doesnt affect the pr- rolestopper affects the target (i.e. you rolestop a tourist, and doc docs them. if you blackmail somebody who visits them which kills them, they will die due to rolestopper stopping doctor from having its effect) i do think tracker pr could get changed but considering a large part of this is visiting, i dont know how well it would work. cop possibly could work in place tho thatd definitely need to be tested i just think mafia doesnt need to be nerfed as they already have a bigger than usual numbers disadvantage, maybe town could get a slight buff (cop line above) |
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Post by iavh on Dec 23, 2022 19:08:01 GMT
tracker to watcher? this is about visiting and kinda fits the theme more
woooo 100 posts
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Dec 23, 2022 20:30:33 GMT
Scumteam too OP? 2 prs either roleblocked or rolestopped per night. What if we made one scum weaker (like roleblocker to goon) or make it that they don't have factional communication and only rolestopper can do the blackmailing but can only choose between one action then the other scum inherits the kill when rolestopper dies? note that its also 2v8 which numbers wise is more townsided, scum has these stronger prs to make up for that inbalance also in terms of having only one person do the blackmail it really wouldnt make much of a difference as everybody is visiting somebody and if maf rolestops a pr that doesnt affect the pr- rolestopper affects the target (i.e. you rolestop a tourist, and doc docs them. if you blackmail somebody who visits them which kills them, they will die due to rolestopper stopping doctor from having its effect) i do think tracker pr could get changed but considering a large part of this is visiting, i dont know how well it would work. cop possibly could work in place tho thatd definitely need to be tested i just think mafia doesnt need to be nerfed as they already have a bigger than usual numbers disadvantage, maybe town could get a slight buff (cop line above) Without taking into account PRs, 2v8 is equivalent to 2v7, which has an approximately 30% town win chance by EVs. I'd say this is normally fair, but not quite townsided at all. What makes it that it's townsided? Rolestopper I think is very interesting though, it's cool that Mafia can accidentally block their own kill if they don't watch out! I think Tracker is a fair PR. It's quite cool that everyone targets, so it's not quite incriminating. However, if the target doesn't match up with who they SR (for example), it would be bad. Could lead to interesting discussions at day! Seems like a fun theme altogether, we're long due for a good blackmailer theme. Great name btwEdit: Wait, is Rolestopper not a neg for Mafia unless they use it on themselves? If you want to reduce PRs you could make rolestopper and blocker into one. (Bit like jailkeeper for targets) |
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 23, 2022 21:39:11 GMT
tracker to watcher? this is about visiting and kinda fits the theme more woooo 100 posts dont know how much tracker to watcher changes however i do agree that tracker should probably be changed, i dont think its effect will be very prevalent until the later parts of the game (if it makes it there) |
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 23, 2022 23:38:43 GMT
note that its also 2v8 which numbers wise is more townsided, scum has these stronger prs to make up for that inbalance also in terms of having only one person do the blackmail it really wouldnt make much of a difference as everybody is visiting somebody and if maf rolestops a pr that doesnt affect the pr- rolestopper affects the target (i.e. you rolestop a tourist, and doc docs them. if you blackmail somebody who visits them which kills them, they will die due to rolestopper stopping doctor from having its effect) i do think tracker pr could get changed but considering a large part of this is visiting, i dont know how well it would work. cop possibly could work in place tho thatd definitely need to be tested i just think mafia doesnt need to be nerfed as they already have a bigger than usual numbers disadvantage, maybe town could get a slight buff (cop line above) Without taking into account PRs, 2v8 is equivalent to 2v7, which has an approximately 30% town win chance by EVs. I'd say this is normally fair, but not quite townsided at all. What makes it that it's townsided? Rolestopper I think is very interesting though, it's cool that Mafia can accidentally block their own kill if they don't watch out! I think Tracker is a fair PR. It's quite cool that everyone targets, so it's not quite incriminating. However, if the target doesn't match up with who they SR (for example), it would be bad. Could lead to interesting discussions at day! Seems like a fun theme altogether, we're long due for a good blackmailer theme. Great name btwEdit: Wait, is Rolestopper not a neg for Mafia unless they use it on themselves? If you want to reduce PRs you could make rolestopper and blocker into one. (Bit like jailkeeper for targets) well in my defense i dont know evs but usually majority of the games i see are 3v8 so thats that, and if you take in prs it is pretty funny mafia can accidentally block their own kill, but still rb and rs are pretty powerful if this theme can ever get tested (havent gotten a 10p postfish yet  ) ill attempt to try it with a jk that doesnt protect while i think tracker works/fits i still dont know the amount of utility it has or how it will be used (yes, i am in fact desperate for a test )
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 24, 2022 3:33:39 GMT
pretty big problem fillering brought up is that doc and tracker can claim and basically live forever as no town should visit them... maf then has to deal with 2 confs who they cant kill and also a probably less consistent kill
Edit: along with this newfound information, without adding some silly rule like if nobody visits doc/track they die (it means that doc/track could randomly die a night((unless this somehow is fine))), prs claims r just too op. i think its just best to simple this down to probably 3v8, maybe 2v8 and keep some roleblockers/rolestoppers/jk or sumthin to affect the tourist visiting. its a pretty big kink in the theme sadly
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Post by iavh on Dec 24, 2022 9:24:07 GMT
Can we just have a forum game for this?
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 24, 2022 21:28:05 GMT
pretty big problem fillering brought up is that doc and tracker can claim and basically live forever as no town should visit them... maf then has to deal with 2 confs who they cant kill and also a probably less consistent kill Edit: along with this newfound information, without adding some silly rule like if nobody visits doc/track they die (it means that doc/track could randomly die a night((unless this somehow is fine))), prs claims r just too op. i think its just best to simple this down to probably 3v8, maybe 2v8 and keep some roleblockers/rolestoppers/jk or sumthin to affect the tourist visiting. its a pretty big kink in the theme sadly snaq had the idea of adding this modifier that if a pr is visited by scum, they die (for now lets call it shy) i think this change is pretty neccesary if you event want prs so... yeah. however along with that change im making it 1x Mafia Rolestopper/blocker, which both rolestops and roleblocks 1 PERSON each night. other maf becomes 1x Mafia Goon. |
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Post by iavh on Dec 24, 2022 21:33:19 GMT
is this new rule going to abused? i think scum is going to target the doc and tracker claims at night with shy, while death if no targetting doc or tracker is just going to be WIFOM, p annoying, but playtesting is best for now
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Post by iavh on Dec 24, 2022 21:40:30 GMT
I like how I influenced the scumteam change, and it is more of a choice of when to use each ability, not just no skill spamming whatever you want
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Post by iavh on Dec 24, 2022 21:44:38 GMT
Ever considered adding vigs to the game? It would be funny to see the vig getting whitemailed and thus negating the kill. Also is used to kinda speed up the game, is it just me or does anyone think 1 kill per night is slow
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 25, 2022 2:26:50 GMT
is this new rule going to abused? i think scum is going to target the doc and tracker claims at night with shy, while death if no targetting doc or tracker is just going to be WIFOM, p annoying, but playtesting is best for now if Doctor claims they just die unless the Roleblocker/rolestopper is dead. Same thing with tracker (unless it gets whitemailed, but maf should be going for whitemailer here. Also whitemailer is unpredictable, so yeah). I think I might add an inheritance of either rolestopper/roleblocker (probably scum's choice) so the goon doesn't lose to claims if their partner dies. Edit: I didn't exactly get what you said at first but now I do. The entire point of shy is to make sure town can't claim prs who live for the rest of the game. Also due to editing Mafia's roles, it is possible for 2 PRS to die in one night but its unlikely. Maf still has to think a lot for a semi-controlled blackmail. |
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 25, 2022 2:30:43 GMT
Ever considered adding vigs to the game? It would be funny to see the vig getting whitemailed and thus negating the kill. Also is used to kinda speed up the game, is it just me or does anyone think 1 kill per night is slow 1 Kill per night is normal mafia. I personally do not want vig as this theme is meant to be a bit more thought out during the night. Vig would probably shit on mafia pretty hard as its an instant nk- it just has to worry about rolestop and roleblock (normal prs and whitemailer do as well), versus mafia having to think about who their target will visit. |
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Post by iavh on Dec 25, 2022 7:17:45 GMT
Impatience is my downfall
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Dec 25, 2022 9:43:11 GMT
I talked to mmib about this on PS, but how about making the powerroles simply "Fragile". Consider it an opposite of Weak, where you instantly die when targeted by anti-town, instead of Weak making you die when you target anti-town.
You could even make it so that doc still works on them. The modifier probably exists but I couldn't think of it, and Fragile fits.
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 25, 2022 18:30:13 GMT
I talked to mmib about this on PS, but how about making the powerroles simply "Fragile". Consider it an opposite of Weak, where you instantly die when targeted by anti-town, instead of Weak making you die when you target anti-town. You could even make it so that doc still works on them. The modifier probably exists but I couldn't think of it, and Fragile fits. yeah this basically will keep tracker! |
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Post by ForgotToFlush on Dec 26, 2022 17:55:24 GMT
Without taking into account PRs, 2v8 is equivalent to 2v7, which has an approximately 30% town win chance by EVs. I'd say this is normally fair, but not quite townsided at all. What makes it that it's townsided? Rolestopper I think is very interesting though, it's cool that Mafia can accidentally block their own kill if they don't watch out! I think Tracker is a fair PR. It's quite cool that everyone targets, so it's not quite incriminating. However, if the target doesn't match up with who they SR (for example), it would be bad. Could lead to interesting discussions at day! Seems like a fun theme altogether, we're long due for a good blackmailer theme. Great name btwEdit: Wait, is Rolestopper not a neg for Mafia unless they use it on themselves? If you want to reduce PRs you could make rolestopper and blocker into one. (Bit like jailkeeper for targets) well in my defense i dont know evs but usually majority of the games i see are 3v8 so thats that, and if you take in prs it is pretty funny mafia can accidentally block their own kill, but still rb and rs are pretty powerful if this theme can ever get tested (havent gotten a 10p postfish yet :'( ) ill attempt to try it with a jk that doesnt protect while i think tracker works/fits i still dont know the amount of utility it has or how it will be used (yes, i am in fact desperate for a test )
ideally you want x misvotes before volo, where x is the number of scum roles
something like 3v10 is closer to balanced imo
if you're sticking with 2 scum, then 10p gives you a mylo scenario after 2 misvotes, which is fine on a technical level but idk how gameplay will be affected
also, does fragile triggering replace the factional kill? because if not, the multiple mafia kills per night are sorta problematic at a lower pl number like this
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 26, 2022 21:57:04 GMT
BOYS I THINK ITS DONE
WOO!
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 26, 2022 21:58:56 GMT
well in my defense i dont know evs but usually majority of the games i see are 3v8 so thats that, and if you take in prs it is pretty funny mafia can accidentally block their own kill, but still rb and rs are pretty powerful if this theme can ever get tested (havent gotten a 10p postfish yet ) ill attempt to try it with a jk that doesnt protect while i think tracker works/fits i still dont know the amount of utility it has or how it will be used (yes, i am in fact desperate for a test )
ideally you want x misvotes before volo, where x is the number of scum roles
something like 3v10 is closer to balanced imo
if you're sticking with 2 scum, then 10p gives you a mylo scenario after 2 misvotes, which is fine on a technical level but idk how gameplay will be affected
also, does fragile triggering replace the factional kill? because if not, the multiple mafia kills per night are sorta problematic at a lower pl number like this
fragile trigger doesnt replace factional kill mafia already has a chance of their kill not working and townies can be semi-confed after a couple nights edit: forgot to add- this kinda balances it out, but more importantly, mafs chance of failing the kill increases the lower the pl |
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Post by iavh on Dec 27, 2022 8:30:35 GMT
Congrats mem, you had snaq and ftf help you make a theme, free labour, I just love it and you, definitely!
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Post by mymemoryisbad on Dec 30, 2022 1:30:44 GMT
Congrats mem, you had snaq and ftf help you make a theme, free labour, I just love it and you, definitely! Ftf made like one post that was just a question (no offense ftf) snaq telling me fragile exists was quite important tho he also did some other stuff too |
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Post by iavh on Dec 30, 2022 9:17:40 GMT
BOYS I THINK ITS DONE WOO! Did you just assume three or more people's genders? That is offensive and will not be tolerated. |
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) ill attempt to try it with a jk that doesnt protect
