Day 1.

[champetero]

Day 1 has always been a very weird day in mafia games. Mainly because people are just starting the game with no info so it’s not really clear what do to. Some people say a no lynch is the best thing you can do to not risk a miss lynch and hopefully get information during Night 1, but others say that scumhunting and getting a lynch Day 1 is best due to the information it provides. So what do you guys think about Day 1 and which scenario is better for town in your opinion?

Things that you should take as an example for discussion:


• Consequences of No Lynching or Lynching Day 1.

• Ways to get information.

• Random Voting Stage



Note: You shouldn’t just answer this questions, but they are guidelines on how to begin discussion.

[BadPandaPancham]

I like this because day 1 is always a topic not much people bring up.
One thing could be even if you do start lynching and gather reactions or scum hunt day 1, you could be possibly seen by the rest of the town as scum for wanting a lynch day 1.
Also, when thinking about whether you should or shouldn't lynch, take into account the amount of players and role list (if there is one). Sometimes it's better to look at the statistics and just decide whether lynching should even be considered from there.


Day 1 is an important day that's usually just skipped over because it can go 1 of 3 ways:

1. Scum is lynched. Town has a gigantic head-start and can look over who lynched/didn't lynch the mafia that day and can look back for previous reactions, plus cop can inspect the person (or people) who didn't lynch the scum and see if there are any guilty parties from there, assuming mafia didn't make the better play and lynch his partner (or if it's a role like ww or so).

2. Town is lynched. Giant set-back for the town in terms of people, and will reach mylo/lylo a lot faster just because of one mislynch. Also risks lynching a power role and if they have to claim to save themselves, risks revealing a role like doc. But, cop has a greater % of inspecting scum due to less players.

3. No one is lynched. The game proceeds with no advantages for either side at this point (usually).


Even if you decide to /me nl, I prefer to keep Day 1 going on for a decent amount of time. Why? Because we as humans tend to make a ton of errors. Those errors can be players that slip up and reveal a little too much info. That can help town greatly, or maybe even cripple them (for instance, people who ask who the cop is are, believe it or not, doc a decent percentage of the time). Info gathering even when it's a no-lynch is crucial, especially during the early stages of the game.

[citrus]

NLing is a really poor move, unless it is optimal in a setup to do so (Eg. EM's mason setup, or mylo). The only reason I nl is because I'm horribly lazy to scumhunt.

Lynching is far better because it lowers the suspect list and actually gives you a chance at hitting scum. Like Nling, gives cop a free inspect, but ML essentially does the same thing, so there really isn't a good reason to nl. Even if there's cop+doc and you have a ml, might as well use it rather than wasting an nl. The odds of lynching doc (Which will claim) is much lower than the odds for doc being shot at the night, anyway.

[rssp1]

I agree with BPP that scumhunting is a better idea than lynching, although if someone is horribly scummy I guess there's nothing wrong with lynching them, since a cop investigation would just be wasted on them otherwise.

[ajhockeystar]

As for forum mafia, always try to lynch Day 1 as cx said, except if the scenario is clearly not optimal for it. It gives players an idea on who to use their actions on, and lynching actually helps establish reads because you can compare how someone pressured for a certain lynch to their flip.

A smooth transition out of RVS is always nice, and a quick one is even better. See: What I did D1 in Star Fox. Asking questions and pressuring with votes can aid for a quick transition out.

[Transmuter]

[05:34] champetero: you should post in the strategy board
[05:34] +Transmuter: x-x
[05:35] champetero: tho for real
[05:35] champetero: it's about what you think of day 1
[05:35] +Transmuter: idk
[05:35] +Transmuter: it depends
[05:35] +Transmuter: when I'm bored/lazy I just nl
[05:35] +Transmuter: when I feel like having fun, I troll around
[05:36] +Transmuter: when I want to be serious, I try to scumhunt but sometimes people nl too fast
[05:36] champetero: you should post it in the forum

[rssp1]

gg trans

[Transmuter]

Sept 13, 2014 23:34:16 GMT BadPandaPancham said:

I like this because day 1 is always a topic not much people bring up.
One thing could be even if you do start lynching and gather reactions or scum hunt day 1, you could be possibly seen by the rest of the town as scum for wanting a lynch day 1.
Also, when thinking about whether you should or shouldn't lynch, take into account the amount of players and role list (if there is one). Sometimes it's better to look at the statistics and just decide whether lynching should even be considered from there.


Day 1 is an important day that's usually just skipped over because it can go 1 of 3 ways:

1. Scum is lynched. Town has a gigantic head-start and can look over who lynched/didn't lynch the mafia that day and can look back for previous reactions, plus cop can inspect the person (or people) who didn't lynch the scum and see if there are any guilty parties from there, assuming mafia didn't make the better play and lynch his partner (or if it's a role like ww or so).

2. Town is lynched. Giant set-back for the town in terms of people, and will reach mylo/lylo a lot faster just because of one mislynch. Also risks lynching a power role and if they have to claim to save themselves, risks revealing a role like doc. But, cop has a greater % of inspecting scum due to less players.

3. No one is lynched. The game proceeds with no advantages for either side at this point (usually).


Even if you decide to /me nl, I prefer to keep Day 1 going on for a decent amount of time. Why? Because we as humans tend to make a ton of errors. Those errors can be players that slip up and reveal a little too much info. That can help town greatly, or maybe even cripple them (for instance, people who ask who the cop is are, believe it or not, doc a decent percentage of the time). Info gathering even when it's a no-lynch is crucial, especially during the early stages of the game.

Great post, pretty much what I would post if I wasn't too lazy to post stuff. (it's freaking 6 AM here). But yeah, great post man n_n

[BadPandaPancham]

Sept 14, 2014 2:50:14 GMT Transmuter said:

Sept 13, 2014 23:34:16 GMT BadPandaPancham said:

blahblahblah more blah lynch stuff yeah /me lynch drookez blahblah

Great post, pretty much what I would post if I wasn't too lazy to post stuff. (it's freaking 6 AM here). But yeah, great post man n_n

Ty man :]
Oh look, it got people to view the thread ^^

[rssp1]

Sept 14, 2014 3:58:29 GMT BadPandaPancham said:

Sept 14, 2014 2:50:14 GMT Transmuter said:

Great post, pretty much what I would post if I wasn't too lazy to post stuff. (it's freaking 6 AM here). But yeah, great post man n_n

Ty man :]
Oh look, it got people to view the thread ^^

I think we're all here because champetero forced us to come here.

champ edit: Such lie I only forced trans to come here n_n.

rssp edit: I was kinda forced to come here again tho

[Drookez]

I kind of agree of pressuring people day 1 to start conversations, the most simple way is of course, by lynching. When a lynch is started, there can be 2 sides: supporting the lynch or disagreeing with the lynch. This can leads to other chain reactions in a repeated process.

Although, I do think that lynching people is good we shouldn't over do it as we risk the lives of power roles. In many forum games, most people are power roles
so it is very difficult to pressure someone without them giving out crucial information to save their lives.

So now, the question is: How do we pressure someone without risking an important townie?

Also, should we lynch people because of inactivity?

[rssp1]

Sept 14, 2014 15:45:02 GMT Drookez said:

I kind of agree of pressuring people day 1 to start conversations, the most simple way is of course, by lynching. When a lynch is started, there can be 2 sides: supporting the lynch or disagreeing with the lynch. This can leads to other chain reactions in a repeated process.

Although, I do think that lynching people is good we shouldn't over do it as we risk the lives of power roles. In many forum games, most people are power roles
so it is very difficult to pressure someone without them giving out crucial information to save their lives.

So now, the question is: How do we pressure someone without risking an important townie?

Also, should we lynch people because of inactivity?

Pressuring someone doesn't mean that you have to lynch them. Simply having a bunch of votes on them and putting them at a threat to be lynched is enough. If someone hammers them, they are most likely scum, and if not scum, an inexperienced player.
Inactivity lynches when you have no idea who to lynch are generally good in my opinion because they remove a possible mafia or a useless town from the equation. You can also see who jumps on the bandwagon quickly (if the lynchee turns up town) and suspect them in future rounds.

[champetero]

Sept 13, 2014 23:34:16 GMT BadPandaPancham said:

I like this because day 1 is always a topic not much people bring up.
One thing could be even if you do start lynching and gather reactions or scum hunt day 1, you could be possibly seen by the rest of the town as scum for wanting a lynch day 1.
Also, when thinking about whether you should or shouldn't lynch, take into account the amount of players and role list (if there is one). Sometimes it's better to look at the statistics and just decide whether lynching should even be considered from there.


Day 1 is an important day that's usually just skipped over because it can go 1 of 3 ways:

1. Scum is lynched. Town has a gigantic head-start and can look over who lynched/didn't lynch the mafia that day and can look back for previous reactions, plus cop can inspect the person (or people) who didn't lynch the scum and see if there are any guilty parties from there, assuming mafia didn't make the better play and lynch his partner (or if it's a role like ww or so).

2. Town is lynched. Giant set-back for the town in terms of people, and will reach mylo/lylo a lot faster just because of one mislynch. Also risks lynching a power role and if they have to claim to save themselves, risks revealing a role like doc. But, cop has a greater % of inspecting scum due to less players.

3. No one is lynched. The game proceeds with no advantages for either side at this point (usually).


Even if you decide to /me nl, I prefer to keep Day 1 going on for a decent amount of time. Why? Because we as humans tend to make a ton of errors. Those errors can be players that slip up and reveal a little too much info. That can help town greatly, or maybe even cripple them (for instance, people who ask who the cop is are, believe it or not, doc a decent percentage of the time). Info gathering even when it's a no-lynch is crucial, especially during the early stages of the game.

Great post btw, tho something I don't agree with is saying a townie lynched day 1 isn't a huge set back. Normally if a player gets lynched there was discussion(except auth hate) so even if a townie is lynched you still get info which means day 1 wasn't wasted which is a huge mistake I see people do in ps, also what cxinlee said.


Drookez said:

I kind of agree of pressuring people day 1 to start conversations, the most simple way is of course, by lynching. When a lynch is started, there can be 2 sides: supporting the lynch or disagreeing with the lynch. This can leads to other chain reactions in a repeated process.



Although, I do think that lynching people is good we shouldn't over do it as we risk the lives of power roles. In many forum games, most people are power roles

so it is very difficult to pressure someone without them giving out crucial information to save their lives.



So now, the question is: How do we pressure someone without risking an important townie?



Also, should we lynch people because of inactivity?

Pressuring isn't the only way to generate content, like putting somebody at L-1 to get info is not the only way. Simply asking them questions about specific things they said or thoughts about the game can generate content. There answer will generate content and if they refuse to answer then the player will be scummy. 

Now on lynching inactive players, that can go either way to be honest. Like if you need active discussion then lynching a lurker wont be the worst thing in the world since even if he is town he wasn't helping the town do anything and if it was mafia then town gets closer to winning. If you can't afford to lose players then lynching an inactive player won't be the best play because if you are going to lynch in that scenario you need to be sure the player is scummy and not "He hasn't talked so he must be mafia".

[BadPandaPancham]

True, but I think when I said it's a big set back lyncihg town on d1, I'm talking more about really fast-paced room mafia rather then forum, since a lot of time people don't like to look back at day 1 info in the room x-x

[incognito]

This will be a very unpopular thing to say here but, in MY opinion, and unless the setup is vanilla, not lynching day 1 is the way to go. Any CS will at least have some info roles therefore town will not be at a disadvantage if it waits for some kind of cop/tracker/watcher result.

[incognito]

Of course that obviously doesn't mean you shouldn't be pressuring people because i'm al for a long meaningful day 1, just that at the end of the day no lynching should occur.

[BadPandaPancham]

I disagree with that because here is how it goes:
If you mislynch someone, that's one person off the board.
That's one less person the cop has to waste an investigation on.
The sooner mafia/scum is investigated specifically the better.
Also gives you info on who first lynched them/why.

[incognito]

But there is also the chance that person is cop, doc or town vig.

[BadPandaPancham]

Role claiming's a thing

[citrus]

Also, should we lynch people because of inactivity?

You should probably ask for the mod to sub him out, otherwise yes you should, and its better you do it as early as possible because as champ said, you don’t want to be stuck in that scenario where you can’t afford to mislynch, but at the same time can’t read.

In many forum games, most people are power roles

I don’t know. A lot of the forum games I’ve played 80% of the players are villies, but I’m not sure how it works here.

This will be a very unpopular thing to say here but, in MY opinion, and unless the setup is vanilla, not lynching day 1 is the way to go. Any CS will at least have some info roles therefore town will not be at a disadvantage if it waits for some kind of cop/tracker/watcher result.

The current opinion is split, from what I see.

Anyway, I disagree because there is no reason to No Lynch. A large majority of the time, forum setups tend to favour scumhunting over PRs, meaning that cops are rather rare, and if there is a cop there usually is a scum blocker / godfather to compensate. Even if there is a info PR, you can still lynch with close to no drawbacks. The odds of a PR dying at night is usually lower than running a PR to L-1 in the day and forcing him to claim. You should only NL when its MYLO.

[BadPandaPancham]

It's not just the cop's job to do the whole job of the town, it's the town's job. Don't try and make it about without cop we lose, with cop we win. A lot of people seem to think that way.

[Igpay»atinlay]

Sept 14, 2014 22:11:36 GMT champetero said:

Great post btw, tho something I don't agree with is saying a townie lynched day 1 isn't a huge set back. Normally if a player gets lynched there was discussion(except auth hate) so even if a townie is lynched you still get info which means day 1 wasn't wasted which is a huge mistake I see people do in ps, also what cxinlee said.

Mislynches aren't a huge setback in large games, but in 7 player classic, for example, a mislynch puts you into mylo day 2, which can be detrimental if the mafia plays it right.

[Igpay»atinlay]

Sept 15, 2014 21:27:29 GMT incognito said:

This will be a very unpopular thing to say here but, in MY opinion, and unless the setup is vanilla, not lynching day 1 is the way to go. Any CS will at least have some info roles therefore town will not be at a disadvantage if it waits for some kind of cop/tracker/watcher result.

I agree with ODM here. If it's a small game, you don't want to risk a mislynch because it could ruin town. If it's classic, the cop CCs are pretty useful scumhunting material. If it's a large game, then it isn't a bad idea to let the scum kill a couple of players to clear up the chat.

That was for a chat game. For a forum game, there is no reason to not lynch D1 because there is plenty of time to make conversation in the following days if you end up mylo D2, whereas that time is limited in a chat game.