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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 3:26:49 GMT
HE HAS RISEN
massive wallpost incoming btw
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 3:48:55 GMT
what does "but they can only find red checks on Mafia Role blocker" mean? i thought role cop can get a red check on any scum. if they found a party crasher, their check would reveal them as a party crasher? Sample Role PMs: GM user:
Role: Party Crasher (Mafia Goon)
Alignment: Party Crashers (Mafia)
Abilities: 1. Factional Nightkill: Every night, you and your teammates can kill one player.
2. Factional Communication: You can freely communicate with your teammates using the provided channel.
Your Associates: Your Fellow Mafia members.
Win Condition: Control at least 50% of the player base.
GM user:
Role: Disguised Bouncer (Mafia Roleblocker)
Alignment: Party Crashers (Mafia)
Abilities: 1. Each night phase, you may prevent one player from using their night action.
2. Factional Nightkill: Every night, you and your teammates can kill one player.
3. Factional Communication: You can freely communicate with your teammates using the provided channel.
Your Associates: Your Fellow Mafia members.
Win Condition: Control at least 50% of the player base.
GM user:
Role: Detective (Role Cop)
Alignment: Party Guests (Town)
Abilities:Each night phase, you may investigate one player. You will be told their exact role (e.g. "Party Member" if Party Crasher / Party Guest, "Security Guard" if Security Guard, or "Bouncer" if Bouncer / Disguised Bouncer), or receive "NO RESULT" if your investigation failed.
Your Associates: Your fellow townsfolk.
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
GM user:
Role: Bouncer (Roleblocker)
Alignment: Party Guests (Town)
Abilities: Each night phase, you may prevent one player from using their night action.
Your Associates: Your fellow townsfolk
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
GM user:
Role: Security Guard (Bodyguard)
Alignment: Party Guests (Town)
Abilities: Each night phase, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from one kill that night and you will be killed in their place.
Your Associates: Your fellow townsfolk
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
GM user:
Role: Party Guest (Vanilla Townie)
Alignment: Party Guests (Town)
Abilities: None, except for your vote.
Your Associates: Your fellow townsfolk
Win Condition: You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
bro what role cop is actually asscheeks then |
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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 3:49:15 GMT
apparently a formatting botch happened and some of the posts i selected vanished into thin air, so i'm going to be posting in backwards order here that is not at all what i got from your read of me. the tone of it seemed like weird. like you were skeptical of calling me town or didn't like that you thought i was town or annoyed that i was pushing you. idk something negative. it felt like your read had a negative connotation attached to it tbh, idk to that. but my best explanation for it sounding (sorry if i sounded negative) is that like snapa is more approachable? like zach goes out there p hard and is p aggressive when asking qs n stuff, snapa is more chill about it? i'm still not sure what the basis of the read is. is being approachable a more townie trait? ngl i get the feeling your read here is genuine mostly because it seems to be emotionally motivated in a way that feels town to me in ways i can't explain myself I think their positioning w zach is weird Explain what you mean by this pls ======= I have a few things I quickly want to say about what I think from the nightkill. It seems that scum is going pr hunting. This concerns me for a few reasons 1. Pr = good, and with only a few non-cop claims left, I'm afraid that they will end up hitting cop soon 2. Scum may be more concentrated in active pool than we thought - eliminating lurkers brings more focus to each of the remaining ones 3. They feel comfortable with the status quo, meaning we're not putting enough pressure on scum. This allows them breathing space to go snipe afk bois instead of eliminating active threats to them. pretty sure i've gone over this, but alright.
y'all know what i'm here for, anyways:Especially in accordance to the third point, I want to put more pressure on Shadow, and a little on the chaos voters. We've had a little so far on spore (kliff appreciation), but I really want to focus on Cyan today. ================== Cyan quote below: as one of the chaos wagon's main advocates, you can use my iso for reference because i feel like every other point that was made was some variation of something i've said about them Cyan Talon Avatar Jul 9, 2022 at 11:11pm Cyan Talon said: not at home rn, will make a full response later my reasons tie into chaos's extremely passive play in both d1 and d2 and their subsequent attempts to justify said playstyle (i.e. "we don't have enough to work off of so you shouldn't be pushing people") and also push low-activity slots in the name of "playing the game" tl;dr chaos appeared to be aggressively disinterested in scumhunting i wouldn't call it a high quality vote by any means but considering the one other guy who i was considering into D2 barfed out a role cop claim, it was what i had to work with ======================= i couldn't see any of the "chaos doesn't want to hunt scum" when I was backreading. You really need to give some quotes for this because from my perspective it just looks like you were the one pushing a relatively low-activity slot. incoming.You also don't get to just ignore my scumread and my request that you explain yourself more, when I know for a fact that you read my post all the way through (you made a comment about how you found my comment on snapa spore d1 funny, which i put at the end) can't be bothered to link it properly, but for reference, this is the read you madei'm not sure how to explain it, but i'm not the one you should be directing your case at. you're trying to argue that i'm scum; inherently that means i'm not the target audience of this case, so any response that i do make isn't going to mean much in the long run
even then, there's really not much i can argue with here? i don't have much in terms of reads because d2 and d3 sapped me, and prodding people for answers and steering discussion is generally how i play in forums. you can check my past games if you want some more insight
i spent most of yesterday (irl) thinking about what the kill pattern meant for our gamestate, because i was more interested in that than in looking at the reads. lately we've been having a bunch of wallposts, so i can get back into form nowSpore your justification for voting chaos that you gave when voted ("Cyan and mmib sound like they know what they're doing so i guess i'll get on as well") is extremely lackadaisical and doesn't explain anything abot your motives here vote cyan talon, i want some vote pressure on this for a nice wall response to al of the accusations I'll post more in a few hours but this is what i could glean so far from skimming d4 generally though i find this case to be pretty well-presented. i just have no real way of responding to itAlright, let's talk about cyan.
I really appreciate what they did for the game on d1. I think Kliff does a good job at summarizing all of this in their post. My only problem is that cyan was just kinda null on erry. Snap pushes them for it, and they just kinda deflect the whole interaction. Kinda weird, but nothing too alarming. They also shift between sylv and pac then back to sylv, but I can't fault them for this as I kinda did the same until they pressured me to vote. They wanted to both push sylv for their bs and pac for saying just outright weird stuff and doubling down on it. I shared that sentiment, but in retrospect sylv was definitely the one acting scummier. The shift back to sylv, however, could be cyan bussing.
D2 is when things start to change tho. Cyan jumps hard on chaos train after sylv claims cop. Cyan said the following on d3 summarizing their push on chaos: not at home rn, will make a full response later my reasons tie into chaos's extremely passive play in both d1 and d2 and their subsequent attempts to justify said playstyle (i.e. "we don't have enough to work off of so you shouldn't be pushing people") and also push low-activity slots in the name of "playing the game" tl;dr chaos appeared to be aggressively disinterested in scumhunting I think your justification for voting chaos out is very weak. Passive play =/= disinterest in your alignment's overall objective. Using these two synonymously is lazy and/or scummy. As a town member, playing passively can either mean you're a PR not wanting to draw too much attention to yourself, someone who wants to share only the information that they deem relevant to the game, or someone who doesn't have much to go off of. Chaos was a combination of the latter two. He was consistent in this for the rest of his time alive, yet it wasn't enough for you, spore, or mmib to move off of him.
i felt that what we had in d1 was more than enough to pursue some angle of discussion d2, especially since the wagons on pac and sylv hadn't been thinned out by votes and nightkills yet. chaos arguing that there wasn't enough to go off of seemed disingenuous to me because of that; to me, the doubling-down cemented my read instead of detracting from it. This is different then actively withholding information from the rest of the town, which is scummy. Chaos simply just didn't share everything that was on their mind. When asked a question, they answered it to at least enough of an ability. I also got confused that when people started to complain about activity, the major push was on someone who was, at the bare minimum, being active. This is also the day where cyan starts to get frustrated at the lack of activity.
dewfew provided more info on this scenario so I won't dive too much more into it. Thank you for it
Im beginning to think its sort of unlikely for zach and cyan to be in a team If I'm town read, and chaos was confirmed town, then is it a reach to conclude that cyan very well could be scum from this context and logic alone? Unfortunately, he was killed before he was able to elaborate on this by, guess who.
"in a team" isn't exactly the same as "having the same alignment". then again, we can't exactly argue over how we should interpret the words of a dead player without the discussion derailing into trivial territory In addition, any attempt to try and out cyan for what they are doing has been either deflected, not really fleshed out, or ignored. That's not acceptable behavior. You've also been very unoriginal in your reads. Even pushing chaos wasn't that original since mmib was the one that started the suspicion on him on d1. You've also admitted to "stealing" my read on kliff. Really dude? We need some actual substance out of you. It's hypocritical to vote people out for a lack of information given to then only not provide much more of it yourself.
re: NKA. it wasn't much, so all i can say is "i tried" Also potential for kliff and cyan svt:
- cyan said, "tl;dr, kliff fits neatly into (at least, my image of) whatever scum agenda appears to be at play here"
- while potentially true on the surface, upon further digging and context, this simply isn't true. kliff pursuing martin d2 kinda seems like a rvs, but pursing them d3 doesn't seem like a rvs at all since martin all has done is like a single post from micro made at the start of d3. unfortunately, kliff didn't share this until d4, but i don't think his targeting of martin is necessarily random anymore
- this statement is kinda seems like a lazy deflection after understanding the above context - kliff also skepitcal of cyan There's no way these two people are aligned. Kliff has been giving major town vibes since the start of the day.
I said this earlier in the game, "I greatly appreciate the efforts you've made to progress the game forward, but I can't quite make heads or tails of what your alignment is. One moment, you'll be leading town in the right direction, but the next you'll go down a train of thought that either seems uncharacteristically emotional, saying the same thing you've already said, arguing with snap (creating a svt situation between you two), or actively trying to kill of people contributing with valuable information (chaos). If we didn't have inactive players or sylv, then I'd want to pressure you, but that will have to wait for another day. Null/FOS on you, but we can wait until later in the game to actually explore this." I'm starting to think the list of reasons I had against you should've been enough to just sr you then are there, but it wasn't.
vote cyan talon in this case then at least one scum was on that wagon, sylveon claimed rolecop, apparently, i dont fucking know, and i still have cases stacked on cyan, idk if chaos voted pac but chaos needs to start participating more on town instead of making reads on their own and barely sharing it (at least from what i've seen) im still gonna vote cyan i dont give a shit he's scum vote cyan
These posts were made back to back on d2 after cyan started to sus out chaos.
Where are the "cases stacked on cyan"? In retrospect, I like the aggressive vote, but I want to hear your perspective on this because I'm not clear on where you stand on this now? Right now we need to figure out a systematic way of solving the problem with the afk players. Despite me SR’ing cyan, I think it’s best that we develop a better plan This was posted on d3. Now that we have kind of solved the issue, can you elaborate on your cyan scum read some more snap? |
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 3:49:33 GMT
like literally it’s only use is to snuff out fake claims it can’t even find maf?  ? |
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 3:50:08 GMT
like literally it’s only use is to snuff out fake claims it can’t even find maf? ? Why does 3 questions marks turn into a sad face bruh micromorphic I would like some more explanation on how role cop works pls |
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 3:51:34 GMT
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 4:02:08 GMT
I think their positioning w zach is weird Explain what you mean by this pls [snip] lmao I said I was home then immediately got busy I'm going to bed after I post this - I think how zach approaches your slot feels weird, and when you compare what he posts on you to what his actions show (tl on you) it's, like, kinda scum partner vibes He did backtrack a bit when I prodded him on it but idk if I buy it |
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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 4:16:29 GMT
also continuing from my sr on sylv, spore has done like NOTHING with sylv at all. no trs, no srs, nothing. if im being honest idrk what this means but i dont like this as spores been trolling a ton and just using me as shitpost-y sr. however im starting to see that hes also skipping over a few others the whole shitposting thing started with ohsnapa as the base and me as the catalyst but if we ignore the memes the whole thing started because sylv did rvs and because we are all inexperienced and dont know if rvs exists in forum games we started trying to prove that rvsmeta sucks and the person who brought it in in scum who is sylveon ,the reason why we dont do that in normal games is cus rvs is so ingrained in ps games that no one questions it anymore. soon the whole thing escalated from rvs bad to me and snapa roleplaying as 2 rich englishman trying to roast eachother with the oxford dictionary and forgot about sylv completely yet and started identifying them as conf scum no matter what for no reason in conclusion we have done absolutely nothing
spore gets called out and somehow dude just bcomes serious and summarizes the whole day something i kind of want to flesh out is this read right here. looking at spore's d4 tells me they're currently more the type to answer questions than to ask them. there was like one moment of proactive play d3 that never went very far afterwards. these posts in particular ping me: anyway time for the big read post i was hyping up! ohsnapa: seems townie enough. he plays like he always does, and he seems more townie because he has so many annoying one line posts that end up spamming up forums (no offense bro but PLEASE stop that for the sake of me. "what teh fuck" adds nothing to the game). like there are some snapa is scum theories i have that are highly likely not true unless snapa is in fact scum.... whatever baseline is snapa is trying, and has been making reads. hes been inspecting abroad and is responding even to posts where he really doesnt need to. i like the questioning hes doing, probably a 4 or sum shit. cyan: has progressed gamestate, that seems to be the only thing people find townie from u. fsr i think ur town for dif reasons. anybody can actively progress gamestate and criticize town. some people have said u made unemotional reads or some shit, which idt is a very good reason to sr ppl. tone i can accept, but if ur voting somebody based off emotion 1. learn what ate is 2. fuck off. anyway cyan has made imo some solid reads with plenty of evidence or posts to show as their reasoning why. some general sls or srs on him to me havent been that strong and really dont make sense. like cyan has actively lectured ppl in a couple posts for being simply put mid. forcing people to be active just doesnt seem scummy (i think i contradicted myself but honestly fuck that im tryna remember shit) you guys seem to think that its bad that theyve had a couple defeatist posts, i think its normal cuz town is getting fucked over (not playing bad, getting fucked over) by its half inactive pl. honestly like a 2, i just think yall question cyan for the wrong shit. im honestly bound to change here tho spore: well spore is quite the interesting one. hes really null. you see he and snapa shitposted at first, but he got a shit ton of backlash for it. like everybody was on his case at one point or another in the game before now. bro is literally scarred and has been so fucking careful with his lines, and had the weirdest shift from shitposty to inactive. whether hes town or scum he got essentially bullied into playing lmfao. i cant tell if hes scarred (no typo) town actually trying and like trying to make up for his mistakes or scared scum trying not to get voted. like hes making actual reads and being more active now so i give him some credit there. seems to be coming around. 0.5. could change here zach: ok so he seems like snapa but he doesnt give the town vibe snapa does. like snapa is just having a bop and still is lowkey fucking around, u can tell bro is having fun while still playing. meanwhile zach is inquiring on a lot of stuff but he does it so much more... seriously? like zach is always having a serious tone, but like other people get the same info with a different tone or just doing their town thing. zach is generally doing his townie stuff but sometimes just focuses on stuff that just really isnt as important. like idk consider some more perspectives or smthn. instead of just asking questions or pressuring think what x person would do in x situation and like just be more visual. shrug on that, give em a 3. dewfew: i havent seen too much on them so this is gonna be short. they seemed to read to an extent and with a decent bit of posts being lowkey useless that probably took a while and they had to skim a bit. reads seem like they have thought, they seem a little miffed sometimes, also seem kind of unsure in some posts. again very null honestly just a 0 kliff: this is my last read fyi. so kliff has been thinking outside the box, and while it may seem odd they are pressuring and trying to get a lurker vote which is lowkey better than some other votes rn. like its a bit of a gamble but its probably a gamble worth taking, as i can see it giving a decent bit of info. dunno why theyve been on martin the entire time of all lurkers but idt it matters that much. still curious part 2. anyway they still are null as they have some questions i still want explained and they do have some weird thought processes for sum shit. null but townie-ish thing going, just a 1. like i have responded to a bunch of shit there. everybody else is a lurker or afk, so honestly fuck them for being a bitch and ruining the game like that. already said a bunch of my thoughts on sylv earlier... omfg they just so scummy i fucking cant. tldr: haha fuck u no tldr read it bitch the reads on zach,cyan and i make very little sense to me, maybe cus iam dumb or maybe mmib had trouble getting his point across but i am going to point out things i dont get in mmibs reads so he could reply and explain them to me again with quotes this time mmib stated that cyan has progressed gamestate and that thats theonly thing ppl find townie about him,then says that you made unemotional reads? what is an unemotional read? if anything all your reads should be unemotional and then says that cyan who apparently has made unemotional reads has voted someone based on emotion ?? i dont understand a damn thing,then mmib says cyan made some other good reads with strong evidence, then goes and defends cyans defeatist posts saying its natural town behaviour which it isnt? cyan hardly ever shitposts, exactly what are we going to need defeatist for? to me this feels like some really weak attempt to defend cyan for some odd reason, FOS on that mmib please give me quotes for all the unemotional reads and emotional vote that cyan did mmib said that i have gotten ptsd from the backlash on shitposting even though i only overdid it by a margin and snapa still shitposts and no one says shit ( not salty ) but thats all really, he mentions my change from shitposty to inactive even though it was from shitposty to active? i only started getting inactive cus i started slipping up and getting too lazy to hop on, then talks about me being careful with my reads but doesnt elaborate on whether thats scummy or towny btw tha careful line thing could have prob been stolen from snapa but who knows this one baffles me the most tho mmibs read basically states that zach is ohsnapa (who mmib townreads cus he is good) except that he is more serious than ohsnapa, which apparently doesnt give a towny vibe and then says that everything ohsnapa does , zach does but seriously which should be good but is apparently bad? you tr the shitposting town but dont get a towny vibe from the a more serious version of that town that u tr? also he says that zach is focusing on things that arent important and doesnt give any examples or quotes again a really weak read with hardly any evidence or reason behind it listen mmib, your reads have been tilting for a while but this is a new low, idk if hospital did anything or you were just too lazy but if u have nothing to say then go find stuff to say,this to me feels like some attempt at a quick and ez text wall so he seems towny,seeing as all these reads are weak as hell and have alot of holes and inconsistencies mmib i would like you to revise the 3 reads above and give me some quotes and examples on the stuff i asked for, please and thank you My current thoughts are on seeing if angelmpr kill can out scum Bc it's either -scum kills angel and hopes to get away with it bc they sred them (zach, possibly dewfew asw) -scum kills angel to frame a highly townread member (kliff) -scum is picking names out of a hat to find the cop o shit he is right, scum could be trying to frame someone, but framing almost never works so we didnt think about it yo kliff thats a nice read, cool formating but i wanna defend myself in the last point, ppl were challenging sylv cop claim, mostly snapa at the start and that was before they completely lurked and didnt speak, and seeings as they were the uncced rolecop there word is law i assumed that they would atleast make use of their conf status now that they cant be sred even though their inspect was rather strange.however, they didnt do anything at all with their conf status , before the claim, they talked and panicked and did a lot of stuff,after the claim they were silent. which is something no cop will do so i started to suspect them as a fakeclaiming cop, but voting them is completely useless so i wanted to make use of scums nightactions, so we can use our vote for someone else idk what u want to point out in the word lovely,its just sarcasm seeing as they were useless, however i was a bit too confident in my read and in my happiness typed confirms even though they could have been rbed which i still dont think was a good idea for them the choastrodon read is just for what can be considered as lazy town, i wanted to make them talk and bring out everything they had but eh the ohsnapa thing was me critiquing reads which is something i like to do i didnt rlly focus on snapa, they were just saying shit i didnt understand I really do wanna solve martinvtran because I have reason to believe they are intentionally avoiding posting. I don't know why. I've been wanting them to talk.  this is actually super interesting. it finally gives some base behind your martin read until martin comes online, there's very little we can work off of this save for the fact that kliff's reads are genuine. this is more than enough for me to retract my thoughts on kliff working along an agenda, i feel, unless kliff and martin are deliberately orchestrating things. and i'm not even going to consider that scenario for a second because it's stupid in fact, let me just put it out there that i now think kliff is a townie that wanted to stick to a game plan, got discouraged, and is looking at other avenues of exploration. their newly formed reads in d4 have a sort of "rushed" kind of feel that tells me they're trying to re-read the game, and while ordinarily that would be a scumtell, it frames their lurker-pushing agenda as something they genuinely believed in and tried to work with up to this point in the game Actually you’ve seemed fairly towny so fair OM. Also I’m really starting to think cyan was one of sylv’s scum partners and that Kliff and spore are svt i think kliff and spore are tvt but i could be wrong, from my pov both kliff and spore have been completely consistent with how they're playing. actually let me think i mentioned yesterday that kliff wanting to vote out martin was an odd choice (because of my self made poe) but that's not the takeaway kliff has been wanting to solve the afk people problem for 3 days now (starting d2) and it's been consistent really see the question here is that if kliff was scum why would they be trying to solve the afk people problem and if kliff is scum trying to hunt the rolecop, why would they announce their attempt to solve the afk problem? I already mentioned that at first glance spore seems to be very careful with their words, but if you actually read their serious statements (exclude 1/4 of spore's shitposts d1), it actually does make sense (at least to me). I've mentioned that spore has raw lines im open if someone wants to disprove me otherwise less that i want to disprove you and more that i want to ask you for proof. i'm not sure what your angle is on spore being town, but your arguments kind of fall flat considering any scum can play seriously that being said, if we assume scum is coasting given the last two kills, then maybe it would be wise to rule out the group of townies who sit in between the extremes of active and dominant presence and borderline absence. spore fits into this pool, i feel. scum going PR hunting is an angle i forgot to think about though; and it kind of feels like a better alternative than scum being comfortable in their current position. thanks om i mean i did question this before, but i questioned "what if sylveon is actually rolecop, what does this tell us?" a bunch of times, and no one seemed to reply to that, unless i didnt read something here like i said earlier: right now, i think, (if the case was that angel was killed because of scum trying to hunt real role cop (like om mentioned earlier),
If You Believe Scum is Trying to Role Cop Hunt Then I think The Likely Person to do that would be This Guy ⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️⬇️ the only thing we're waiting for is for the rest of the town to wake up and someone to cc sylv's rolecop claim, to just be able to turbo them and actually progress this game, instead of running around in circles with the current active town members " Do you think he is scum , or do you think he is the scummiest out of mmib , sylv , zach , me and spore" i think he's scum on the other hand though, i still think mmib and zach are townie spore is null, probably nearing scummy if he continues to act careful with his words sylv is uhhhhh, yeah im just kinda waiting for a cc on sylv, if sylv is cop then i'll just turbo cyan anyway
also i kinda think that you're town, i already explained this, but you gotta be more active man, like, i notice you're being careful, i dont think careful is the right word, it's uhhhhhhhhhhhh, secretive, yeah, you're being secretive with your reads, i have to point out here that i read ohsnapa vs. sylv as SvT in d3 for this reason alone: vote sylveon
Sylveon’s claim is still bullshit if they were actually role cop they'd at least have made time to do everything they can to solve yesterday since they'd expect yesterday to be their last. i don't disagree that ohsnapa could've been trying to catalyze a role cop counterclaim into kill, but i feel it's just as likely that snap decided they wanted sylv out d2 and stuck with that decision in d3. good catch though |
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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 4:22:03 GMT
i have officially nailed spoiler formatting but at this point in time i have no real reads other than "kliff is town" and "mmib is probably town"
by the number of posts singing the tune of "oh wait RC can't find maf" i think that the NKA angle of scum going on a PR hunting spree shouldn't be invalidated just because the PR's aren't what we thought them to be
i'm saying we because i also thought it btw
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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 4:23:44 GMT
Explain what you mean by this pls [snip] lmao I said I was home then immediately got busy I'm going to bed after I post this - I think how zach approaches your slot feels weird, and when you compare what he posts on you to what his actions show (tl on you) it's, like, kinda scum partner vibes He did backtrack a bit when I prodded him on it but idk if I buy it i'm too lazy to sift out zach's iso so it would be nice if we got a compilation of zach v. dewfew |
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Post by zachattack01 on Jul 14, 2022 4:39:00 GMT
Explain what you mean by this pls [snip] lmao I said I was home then immediately got busy I'm going to bed after I post this - I think how zach approaches your slot feels weird, and when you compare what he posts on you to what his actions show (tl on you) it's, like, kinda scum partner vibes He did backtrack a bit when I prodded him on it but idk if I buy it I'm not sure if I see where you're getting the scum partner vibes from.
I think I'd call my approach to dewfew pretty consistent to how I've viewed a lot of other players I don't have a lot of information on at the current moment (i.e. spore & kliff). I did my best to assess what they had presented to the game thus far and passed judgment on it while also reserving myself the right to change my opinion on them once more info has come out of them. This can be seen with my read one kliff. I was getting annoyed with their perspectives on d2/d3, but now that the inactive pool has diminished, they've brought up some really good points like proof of martin's lurking (even going far enough as to get them to talk) and a pretty well thought out argument against spore. I now very much town lean them.
I town leaned dewfew initially for their read on cyan and was pretty neutral on everything else they'd done so far cause there wasn't much else they did that was new. I presented two cases scenarios as to why they could be doing this, one towny, one scummy, and also gave myself the time to choose between these two scenarios based on what they've done today. Granted, my "backtrack" was done with text to speech while I was in my car. I'm sorry for it's lack of clarity. Bear with me if it didn't completely get my point across (reading back on it the third sentence just makes no sense at all). I really liked dewfew's read of cyan (not sure if I've made that clear), and I wanted to compliment them for it while simultaneously giving myself an avenue to change my perspective on them if their following actions weren't as towny. Unfortunately, they don't have many actions outside of the their post about cyan (which I (surprise surprise) like as well), so not much to go off of. Perhaps I should've specified slight town lean on dewfew versus "very much" town lean to better differentiate my perception of kliff and dewfew.
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 8:05:19 GMT
apparently a formatting botch happened and some of the posts i selected vanished into thin air, so i'm going to be posting in backwards order here tbh, idk to that. but my best explanation for it sounding (sorry if i sounded negative) is that like snapa is more approachable? like zach goes out there p hard and is p aggressive when asking qs n stuff, snapa is more chill about it? i'm still not sure what the basis of the read is. is being approachable a more townie trait? ngl i get the feeling your read here is genuine mostly because it seems to be emotionally motivated in a way that feels town to me in ways i can't explain myself Explain what you mean by this pls ======= I have a few things I quickly want to say about what I think from the nightkill. It seems that scum is going pr hunting. This concerns me for a few reasons 1. Pr = good, and with only a few non-cop claims left, I'm afraid that they will end up hitting cop soon 2. Scum may be more concentrated in active pool than we thought - eliminating lurkers brings more focus to each of the remaining ones 3. They feel comfortable with the status quo, meaning we're not putting enough pressure on scum. This allows them breathing space to go snipe afk bois instead of eliminating active threats to them. pretty sure i've gone over this, but alright.
y'all know what i'm here for, anyways:Especially in accordance to the third point, I want to put more pressure on Shadow, and a little on the chaos voters. We've had a little so far on spore (kliff appreciation), but I really want to focus on Cyan today. ================== Cyan quote below: as one of the chaos wagon's main advocates, you can use my iso for reference because i feel like every other point that was made was some variation of something i've said about them Cyan Talon Avatar Jul 9, 2022 at 11:11pm Cyan Talon said: not at home rn, will make a full response later my reasons tie into chaos's extremely passive play in both d1 and d2 and their subsequent attempts to justify said playstyle (i.e. "we don't have enough to work off of so you shouldn't be pushing people") and also push low-activity slots in the name of "playing the game" tl;dr chaos appeared to be aggressively disinterested in scumhunting i wouldn't call it a high quality vote by any means but considering the one other guy who i was considering into D2 barfed out a role cop claim, it was what i had to work with ======================= i couldn't see any of the "chaos doesn't want to hunt scum" when I was backreading. You really need to give some quotes for this because from my perspective it just looks like you were the one pushing a relatively low-activity slot. incoming.You also don't get to just ignore my scumread and my request that you explain yourself more, when I know for a fact that you read my post all the way through (you made a comment about how you found my comment on snapa spore d1 funny, which i put at the end) can't be bothered to link it properly, but for reference, this is the read you made
i'm not sure how to explain it, but i'm not the one you should be directing your case at. you're trying to argue that i'm scum; inherently that means i'm not the target audience of this case, so any response that i do make isn't going to mean much in the long run
even then, there's really not much i can argue with here? i don't have much in terms of reads because d2 and d3 sapped me, and prodding people for answers and steering discussion is generally how i play in forums. you can check my past games if you want some more insight
i spent most of yesterday (irl) thinking about what the kill pattern meant for our gamestate, because i was more interested in that than in looking at the reads. lately we've been having a bunch of wallposts, so i can get back into form nowSpore your justification for voting chaos that you gave when voted ("Cyan and mmib sound like they know what they're doing so i guess i'll get on as well") is extremely lackadaisical and doesn't explain anything abot your motives here vote cyan talon, i want some vote pressure on this for a nice wall response to al of the accusations I'll post more in a few hours but this is what i could glean so far from skimming d4 generally though i find this case to be pretty well-presented. i just have no real way of responding to itAlright, let's talk about cyan.
I really appreciate what they did for the game on d1. I think Kliff does a good job at summarizing all of this in their post. My only problem is that cyan was just kinda null on erry. Snap pushes them for it, and they just kinda deflect the whole interaction. Kinda weird, but nothing too alarming. They also shift between sylv and pac then back to sylv, but I can't fault them for this as I kinda did the same until they pressured me to vote. They wanted to both push sylv for their bs and pac for saying just outright weird stuff and doubling down on it. I shared that sentiment, but in retrospect sylv was definitely the one acting scummier. The shift back to sylv, however, could be cyan bussing.
D2 is when things start to change tho. Cyan jumps hard on chaos train after sylv claims cop. Cyan said the following on d3 summarizing their push on chaos:
I think your justification for voting chaos out is very weak. Passive play =/= disinterest in your alignment's overall objective. Using these two synonymously is lazy and/or scummy. As a town member, playing passively can either mean you're a PR not wanting to draw too much attention to yourself, someone who wants to share only the information that they deem relevant to the game, or someone who doesn't have much to go off of. Chaos was a combination of the latter two. He was consistent in this for the rest of his time alive, yet it wasn't enough for you, spore, or mmib to move off of him.
i felt that what we had in d1 was more than enough to pursue some angle of discussion d2, especially since the wagons on pac and sylv hadn't been thinned out by votes and nightkills yet. chaos arguing that there wasn't enough to go off of seemed disingenuous to me because of that; to me, the doubling-down cemented my read instead of detracting from it. This is different then actively withholding information from the rest of the town, which is scummy. Chaos simply just didn't share everything that was on their mind. When asked a question, they answered it to at least enough of an ability. I also got confused that when people started to complain about activity, the major push was on someone who was, at the bare minimum, being active. This is also the day where cyan starts to get frustrated at the lack of activity.
dewfew provided more info on this scenario so I won't dive too much more into it. Thank you for it
If I'm town read, and chaos was confirmed town, then is it a reach to conclude that cyan very well could be scum from this context and logic alone? Unfortunately, he was killed before he was able to elaborate on this by, guess who.
"in a team" isn't exactly the same as "having the same alignment". then again, we can't exactly argue over how we should interpret the words of a dead player without the discussion derailing into trivial territory In addition, any attempt to try and out cyan for what they are doing has been either deflected, not really fleshed out, or ignored. That's not acceptable behavior. You've also been very unoriginal in your reads. Even pushing chaos wasn't that original since mmib was the one that started the suspicion on him on d1. You've also admitted to "stealing" my read on kliff. Really dude? We need some actual substance out of you. It's hypocritical to vote people out for a lack of information given to then only not provide much more of it yourself.
re: NKA. it wasn't much, so all i can say is "i tried" Also potential for kliff and cyan svt:
- cyan said, "tl;dr, kliff fits neatly into (at least, my image of) whatever scum agenda appears to be at play here"
- while potentially true on the surface, upon further digging and context, this simply isn't true. kliff pursuing martin d2 kinda seems like a rvs, but pursing them d3 doesn't seem like a rvs at all since martin all has done is like a single post from micro made at the start of d3. unfortunately, kliff didn't share this until d4, but i don't think his targeting of martin is necessarily random anymore
- this statement is kinda seems like a lazy deflection after understanding the above context - kliff also skepitcal of cyan There's no way these two people are aligned. Kliff has been giving major town vibes since the start of the day.
I said this earlier in the game, "I greatly appreciate the efforts you've made to progress the game forward, but I can't quite make heads or tails of what your alignment is. One moment, you'll be leading town in the right direction, but the next you'll go down a train of thought that either seems uncharacteristically emotional, saying the same thing you've already said, arguing with snap (creating a svt situation between you two), or actively trying to kill of people contributing with valuable information (chaos). If we didn't have inactive players or sylv, then I'd want to pressure you, but that will have to wait for another day. Null/FOS on you, but we can wait until later in the game to actually explore this." I'm starting to think the list of reasons I had against you should've been enough to just sr you then are there, but it wasn't.
vote cyan talon These posts were made back to back on d2 after cyan started to sus out chaos.
Where are the "cases stacked on cyan"? In retrospect, I like the aggressive vote, but I want to hear your perspective on this because I'm not clear on where you stand on this now? This was posted on d3. Now that we have kind of solved the issue, can you elaborate on your cyan scum read some more snap? I have underlined the stuff I want to talk about. > “any response I make isn’t going to do much in the long run” This sounds like an excuse to get lazy and not participate lmao. A read’s target can definitely do some major dissenting/arguing back. One vague example that comes to mind rn is spore v Kliff which is happening right now. > “I don’t have many reads because d2 and d3 sapped me, and prodding people and steering discussion is how I can play forums, check my past games if you want” You’re tired from reading. I get it, reading day 1 made me like that too. but seriously? If I understand what you’re saying correctly, you’re Arguing “that’s not sus because of my pMeTA!1!11” is probably the stupidest thing you could say. I literally bruh’d out loud when I read that. Prodding and steering is fine, but you have to be an active participant as well. Surely you’ve developed more reads than just town lean mmib and someone else (forgot who). > “I spent most of yesterday (irl) thinking about what the kills meant for our gamestate.” If this is an excuse to get out of day analysis, it is a bad excuse. From my perspective, the nightkills have many obvious intents/observations, which I listed in my post. Additionally, I feel that NKA isn’t a very reliable way to play the game, because it requires scum’s thinking process to fully understand, which town obviously can’t access. > “In a team” does not mean the same thing as “aligned the same” don’t argue semantics. Like really this just makes it look like you’re trying to distract using a random comment. > Ohsnapa + cyan i heavily agree with Zach on this one. To me cyan and ohsnapa have been kiddie fighting this whole game and arguing about the most random stuff. Their interactions seem super superficial and like they kind of bounce off each other? Like nothing they say seems to really stick to each other, like two bumper cars that smack each other once in a while and drive away. Ohsnapa has gone to push who knows what now. I honestly got no idea what they’re doing. On a similar note, I want OM to share their thoughts on Cyan + reads on them (from many perspectives, both town and scum reads). it feels like you’re (OM) kind of ignoring the main action here and doing your own thing, which is not necessarily bad (think Kliff pressuring spore, another sussie on the chaos wagon). But you asked for people to explain the Chaos vote, and just left that bread to get stale while you’ve left to cook bacon instead. (if you couldn’t tell I like sandwiches but that’s not relevant) |
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 8:16:15 GMT
Kinda wanna sus snapa a little more now ngl if they don’t stop using the summarizing excuse to be potato town
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Post by dewfew on Jul 14, 2022 8:29:16 GMT
Lol it's nw dude I've been impressed w yall on my read back I'm super excited to play You must be reading game 1 then because all of day 1 murdered my brain and bleached my eyeballs |
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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 11:51:18 GMT
apparently a formatting botch happened and some of the posts i selected vanished into thin air, so i'm going to be posting in backwards order here i'm still not sure what the basis of the read is. is being approachable a more townie trait? ngl i get the feeling your read here is genuine mostly because it seems to be emotionally motivated in a way that feels town to me in ways i can't explain myself I have underlined the stuff I want to talk about. > “any response I make isn’t going to do much in the long run” This sounds like an excuse to get lazy and not participate lmao. A read’s target can definitely do some major dissenting/arguing back. One vague example that comes to mind rn is spore v Kliff which is happening right now. > “I don’t have many reads because d2 and d3 sapped me, and prodding people and steering discussion is how I can play forums, check my past games if you want” You’re tired from reading. I get it, reading day 1 made me like that too. but seriously? If I understand what you’re saying correctly, you’re Arguing “that’s not sus because of my pMeTA!1!11” is probably the stupidest thing you could say. I literally bruh’d out loud when I read that. Prodding and steering is fine, but you have to be an active participant as well. Surely you’ve developed more reads than just town lean mmib and someone else (forgot who). maybe in a different, more fortuitous universe. but not this one, mate. you've caught me, guilty as charged; nothing i can do about it, so nothing i will.
expect me to latch onto and develop reads over the course of d4 and d5. i'm not going to suddenly pop up with an extra read because i'd rather take my time.
> “I spent most of yesterday (irl) thinking about what the kills meant for our gamestate.” If this is an excuse to get out of day analysis, it is a bad excuse. From my perspective, the nightkills have many obvious intents/observations, which I listed in my post. Additionally, I feel that NKA isn’t a very reliable way to play the game, because it requires scum’s thinking process to fully understand, which town obviously can’t access. you wanted to know what i've spent my brainpower doing this past day. i get that my answer isn't very satisfying but there's nothing i can do to change it.
also you should check out the main site, a lot of information just gets dismissed because the average playerbase doesn't bother with NKA
+ it feels weird to dismiss NKA as reliable while also calling its results "obvious". does it have merit, or does it not?> “In a team” does not mean the same thing as “aligned the same” don’t argue semantics. Like really this just makes it look like you’re trying to distract using a random comment. i'll be honest with you. "don't argue semantics" is just as bad as what you're charging me for. you're trying to detract me from questioning the basis on a read based on interactions. needless to say, i don't like that.> Ohsnapa + cyan i heavily agree with Zach on this one. To me cyan and ohsnapa have been kiddie fighting this whole game and arguing about the most random stuff. Their interactions seem super superficial and like they kind of bounce off each other? Like nothing they say seems to really stick to each other, like two bumper cars that smack each other once in a while and drive away. Ohsnapa has gone to push who knows what now. I honestly got no idea what they’re doing. am i supposed to box a child with heavy slugger punches though
on a more serious note, it does feel like the read on me has straight up vanished at this point. neat point-outOn a similar note, I want OM to share their thoughts on Cyan + reads on them (from many perspectives, both town and scum reads). it feels like you’re (OM) kind of ignoring the main action here and doing your own thing, which is not necessarily bad (think Kliff pressuring spore, another sussie on the chaos wagon). But you asked for people to explain the Chaos vote, and just left that bread to get stale while you’ve left to cook bacon instead. (if you couldn’t tell I like sandwiches but that’s not relevant) maybe it's just me speaking, but i feel like you're more focused on casing my play as suboptimal over scummy. let's just say that i've made that mistake already and leave it at that |
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 12:58:09 GMT
Could not care less about the cyan vote as he was, in fact, asleep for most of it
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 12:59:30 GMT
I will comment when something pings me - atm I dunno how much I buy him being scum but I've kinda skimmed through most of the interactions/posts abt it so it's, like, a possibility ig
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 12:59:47 GMT
Lol it's nw dude I've been impressed w yall on my read back I'm super excited to play You must be reading game 1 then because all of day 1 murdered my brain and bleached my eyeballs L imagine reading day 1 |
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Post by cyan on Jul 14, 2022 14:48:25 GMT
Could not care less about the cyan vote as he was, in fact, asleep for most of it you know me well |
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 15:03:01 GMT
Went back and read through cyan's responses and it's
Like
Really weird that his defense for it is 'yeah fair'
Mmm
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 15:03:50 GMT
vote cyan talon
Unvote
vote spore
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 15:06:24 GMT
zachattack01 I'm not quoting your post bc I am hardstuck mobile but I think you've responded well to my concerns so far - i think w your original response was just that it felt hastily put together to explain the read, whilst the other two posts felt weirdly contradictory Felt worth pursuing considering kill anyways
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Post by OM~! on Jul 14, 2022 15:07:00 GMT
Cyan Talon give me some scumreads you dork
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Post by zachattack01 on Jul 14, 2022 15:14:47 GMT
zachattack01 I'm not quoting your post bc I am hardstuck mobile but I think you've responded well to my concerns so far - i think w your original response was just that it felt hastily put together to explain the read, whilst the other two posts felt weirdly contradictory Felt worth pursuing considering kill anyways makes sense. having someone basically rvs me then they die that night can and should raise at least a couple eyebrows |
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Post by zachattack01 on Jul 14, 2022 15:18:36 GMT
Went back and read through cyan's responses and it's Like Really weird that his defense for it is 'yeah fair' Mmm You're not the only who shares this sentiment. It's kinda frustrating that they've done this for the past few times they've been pressed
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