Post by ForgotToFlush on Dec 9, 2023 1:58:11 GMT
by commanderawesome
The Results Are In!
Thank you everyone who participated in my puzzle! Whether that just meant taking one look at it and quitting or sending many many revisions until you had perfected it, it was insanely fun watching people piece this together. In addition to the most successful puzzlers leaderboard, I have included basically the step by step process of how one would actually go about resolving these actions and what the final result should be. But, without further ado!
In third place, with ~6 errors and ZERO hints used is…
In second, with just 2 errors is…
And in first place, winner of the porygon with just one mistake is…
I'd also like to point out that no one- including me- had a perfect solution to the puzzle. Multiple times throughout the submission process I got sent a solution that differed from mine and I realized mine was the wrong one! SI is hard... if you wanna see some of those super sneaky interactions they're detailed below.
Thanks again to everyone who gave the puzzle a whirl, if anyone is interested in this kind of thing again, let me know…
If you’re curious about the solution itself, the host error every single puzzler made, and general directors commentary, read on!
How to resolve this shit (the gory details, extremely long):
The “Golden Rule” itself gives a very strong methodology for the resolution of roles. All we have to do is find a player whose action is not being affected by anyone, and resolve them, ad infinitum. This is slightly easier said than done but the general strategy is to take a read through the entire list of actions, paying special attention to the roles that actually have the ability to affect the resolution of other roles (investigative roles, for example, rarely affect how anything else resolves, meaning their resolution can happen at any time. Generally, this means at the very end. Kills, to a lesser extent, also follow this pattern), and find a player who is not being targeted by anything that affects their action, and whose target is not being targeted in a way that affects their action. For us, this starts with micromorphic, who no one is targeting and affects a whole lot.
micromorphic (Mafia Reflexivizer) Reflexivize Schiavetto: succeeds, Schiavettos action (reflexivizer) will fail, and will instead be applied reflexively. They are thus a reflexive reflexivizer.
This action affects so many people targeting Schia that it’s vital to resolve it early, beyond that though there’s a lot of freedom. The player targeting Schia are the next best bet to look at, as they will become reflexive themself, affecting ever more people, and no one is targeting them adversely.
penguind (Wild Card SI) Wild card Schiavetto: action will fail and instead be applied reflexively, becomes reflexive wild card.
Clouds (2S Multiplier, gifted OS Cop by Teacher N1) Cop Schiavetto, multiply Edjeanerations: Cop will fail (receives no result), becomes reflexive cop. We’ll deal with the multiply later
Snaquaza (Confidant) Confidant Clouds: This causes Clouds to cop Snaq in return due to being reflexive, but let's resolve investigatives in the end, as promised. Cops Schia (again becomes reflexive cop and receives no result), multiplies Edj. Multiplication on Edj will go through though, causing Edj to avoid everyone.
cyan talon (Alien Contrary, Gifted OS Cop by Teacher N3) Cop Schiavetto: becomes reflexive cop, we’ll deal with their results later too.
Bus driver is basically always a good thing to resolve asap if no one is targeting the bus driver, it will affect a lot.
Dasocks (Mafia Bus Driver) Bus drive MyanMario and Abdelrahman: succeeds. This also triggers Myan’s celebrity.
With everyone who can get affected by being targeted resolved, the mass target Edj can now be resolved
Edjeanerations (Avoider) Avoid Clouds: is multiplied by Snaquaza. Causes: Edj to avoid clouds, causing their multiplication to fail. Edj to avoid spiderz, causing their kill to fail. Targets Alex, triggering their psychotrooper button. Targets Peng, causing peng to wild card them unsuccessfully due to being avoided. Avoids reflexive cops Clouds+Snaquaza, causing the two to cop him in return and receive No Result due to being avoided. Targets cuddz, triggering and dodging their PGO, leaving cuddz as vanilla again. Targets Abdelrahman, which gets bus driven to MyanMario, triggering Myan’s celebrity. Targets akakakp, causing their role to get redealt.*
*(A brief note on avoiding reflexive actions: I do not know if this is a thing, and I frankly don't think there is an objective answer as to what should happen due to general vagueness of whether reflexive actions are really targeting. Everyone chose reflexive actions failing, so I amended my original solution slightly to follow that. However this meant my original little line about not needing to use aka’s card dealer to be a lie, so I ignored any errors on this part).
And like that, every action that can really affect others is resolved, leaving only the kills and inspects and the big mess all the above has caused them.
Spiderz (Murderous Vigilante) Kill Edjeanerations: fails due to being avoided, dies due to being murderous.
arby (Judge) Judge Abdelrahman: is bus driven to Myan, but the kill fails due to myan not being one of the players who voted for the eliminated player. Wanted to point out that this is one of a few errors that I made and completely did not see- good catch STP.
Alexander489 (Mafia Psychotrooper Button) Kill mmib: succeeds, mmib dies.
Kills are done, inspects can commence!
ForgotToFlush (Compatibility Checker) Check MyanMario and cyan talon: Myan half is bus driven to Abdelrahman, who is currently mafia as it is night 4, triggers cyan’s reflexive cop. I think I goofed this in my final draft cause I wanted the inspect to be between abdel and a townie to cause flip flop confusion but whatever, cyan and abdel are not compatible. Flush receives compatible due to psycho button.
mmib (Gambit Public Cop) Cop penguind: triggers peng’s wild card, causing peng to wild card towards mmib and mmib to self target. Mmib also dies due to Alex’s kill, making their cop succeed. However due to psychotrooper, the host will post “mmib is mafia” as they flip mmib’s role as town. This is one of my favorite resolutions in the puzzle.
Abdelrahman (Flip Flop, gifted OS Cop by teacher N2) Cop Snaquaza: Gets mafia due to psychotrooper. Also triggers snaq’s reflexive cop.
Clouds (2S Multiplier, gifted OS Cop by Teacher N1): in addition to the no result on schia, clouds reflexively cops snaq as mafia (psychotrooper) and gets no result on edj due to avoider.
Snaquaza (Confidant): In addition to the no result on schia above, snaq has reflexively copped: edj, who they get no result on due to avoider, and Abdel, which gets redirected to myan due to bus drive (another thing I errored on originally-a great catch by peng), and causes them to get a mafia result. This triggers myan’s celebrity as well.
cyan talon (Alien Contrary, Gifted OS Cop by Teacher N3). Cyan is, as partially resolved above, reflexive contrary cop, which makes things really fun. Their cop on schia would normally fail (by definition of reflexivizer), but succeeds due to contrary, giving them a mafia result (psycho). No result on flush reflexive cop due to contrary, and a mafia result on edj because their cop is triggered by avoid, avoided, fails, and thus succeeds. This modifier is kind of absurd ngl
With targeting roles resolved, the celebrity (who should basically always be resolved last as they cannot affect any other action and can get super affected by every other action) can clean things up.
MyanMario (Celebrity): reveals Dasocks, Edj, arby, and snaq to have targeted them (celebrity is non targeting, edj can’t avoid it).
Also of note is cuddz loses their pgo shot, and aka card deals someone. But, I’ve forgotten some roles.
Oracles: these guys dont target and aren't targeted, so they can almost be resolved entirely separately. All have multiple possible justifications, which I’ll shoutout my favorite of. This is the place every single player errored: All of these oracles ask a question whose answer is “yes”- however oracle is a binary investigative role and should be inverted by psychotrooper. Thus, they all get no. I think the separation from the main puzzle caused all the goofs here, git gud I guess.
EasyOnTheHills (Oracle): If it was legal, could an infinite loop of action resolution occur tonight? Yes! (result: no). Examples: confidant targets a reflexive wild card (causing them to self target, copying and executing their own target, triggering their reflexive, causing self target again-my example). Wild card targets multiplier and multiplier targets wild card, causing them to self target. This makes the multiplier target everyone, which normally would not lead to anything infinite (as self targeting isnt a thing) but when they target penguind again they will be redirected to themself and multiply everyone again (Rosa’s example). Wild card cards a reflexivized cop, causing cop to trigger and be redirected to themself, triggering cop again and again and again- STP’s example.
aziziller (Oracle): Could town win by the end of the night with no more town deaths? Yes! (result: no). There are a good amount of permutations to this but in short: targeting mafia (micro, socks, abdel) all go on pgo or card dealer and get dealt d4 suicidial townie, in a crazy turn of bad luck. One of the other mafia factional kills alien, alien contary factionally kills them in return (and is reflexivized, causing kill to fail and thus succeed, and final maf is nuked by derz vig.
zorquax (Mafia Oracle): Is it possible for the game to end in a Mafia win by the end of D5 without the use of any PGOs, reflexivizers, or multipliers that happen to be in the setup? Yes! (result:no) I only intended one solution to this question but removed anti cheese requiring a maximum of two deaths to make the answer way harder to find. My answer was simple albeit very hard to find: a townie targets card dealer and gets dealt patron omniscient (note the theme is si2!), and they get voted out next day. The two deaths thing was required as murderous vig has to die or shoot someone. However, with pgo or card dealer dealing out d4 suicidals/dayvigs, it turns out there are enough kills to barely nuke everyone and give maf 4v4 with no way for town to come back. Another good find from STP.
Done! Easy
And if you just want the simple version:
Schiavetto :Action fails due to micro's reflexivizer, becomes reflexive, reflexivizes snaq, clouds, ct, peng
Spiderz: Dies as edj avoids shot
Dasocks: Succeeds
Snaquaza: Copies socks, makes edj mass and becomes reflexive cop. Gets no result on schia due to reflexivize, mafia on flip flop Myan due to bus driver (psychotrooper) and no result on avoider edj
akakakp: Nothing, boring
arby: Bus driven to MyanMario, doesnt kill em (they werent on wagon)
Clouds: Multiply is avoided, cop is made reflexive. Gets no result on schia due to reflexivize, no result on avoider edj and maf on confidant snaq
cuddleszz: PGO activated by avoider but dodged, loses shot
cyan talon: Both becomes reflexive cop and successfully investigates schia as mafia due to it normally failing (psycho), no result on ForgotToFlush (contrary), maf on avoider edj (should fail)
MyanMario: Reveals socks, edj, flush, and arby targeted them
Alexander489: Kill succeeds, button triggered by avoider
micromorphic: Succeeds
penguind: Becomes reflexive wild card, redirects pub cop onto themself
Abdelrahman: Gets Mafia on confidant
mmib: Is self redirected by reflexive wild card, dies to maf kill and reveals self as mafia
Edjeanerations: Action made mass, avoids every player, triggers pgo, psycho button, as well as a bunch of cops, avoids most of em.
ForgotToFlush: CChecks abdel and ct due to bus driver, gets redirected to myan on abdel half and receives compat due to psycho
EasyOnTheHills: In short yes, read long version for details. Result is "no" due to psychotrooper (these "noes" are what every single puzzler missed!)
aziziller: Yes, between pgo and nks there is the fire power. Result is "no" due to psychotrooper
zorquax: Yes, card dealer deals patron omniscient to a townie and they get voted the next day (as well as a secret surprise second possible solution, read the details post!!) Result is "no" due to psychotrooper
Let me know if you think I still have errors in my final answer- its certainly possible!
The Results Are In!
Thank you everyone who participated in my puzzle! Whether that just meant taking one look at it and quitting or sending many many revisions until you had perfected it, it was insanely fun watching people piece this together. In addition to the most successful puzzlers leaderboard, I have included basically the step by step process of how one would actually go about resolving these actions and what the final result should be. But, without further ado!
In third place, with ~6 errors and ZERO hints used is…
FroggoAKP!
In second, with just 2 errors is…
PenguinD!
And in first place, winner of the porygon with just one mistake is…
SlowThePoke!
Honorable mentions to both Rosalina465 and Edjeanerations, both of whom barely squeaked out of the top 3, as well as to Froggo who did insanely well on their first submission!
Honorable mentions to both Rosalina465 and Edjeanerations, both of whom barely squeaked out of the top 3, as well as to Froggo who did insanely well on their first submission!
I'd also like to point out that no one- including me- had a perfect solution to the puzzle. Multiple times throughout the submission process I got sent a solution that differed from mine and I realized mine was the wrong one! SI is hard... if you wanna see some of those super sneaky interactions they're detailed below.
Thanks again to everyone who gave the puzzle a whirl, if anyone is interested in this kind of thing again, let me know…
If you’re curious about the solution itself, the host error every single puzzler made, and general directors commentary, read on!
How to resolve this shit (the gory details, extremely long):
The “Golden Rule” itself gives a very strong methodology for the resolution of roles. All we have to do is find a player whose action is not being affected by anyone, and resolve them, ad infinitum. This is slightly easier said than done but the general strategy is to take a read through the entire list of actions, paying special attention to the roles that actually have the ability to affect the resolution of other roles (investigative roles, for example, rarely affect how anything else resolves, meaning their resolution can happen at any time. Generally, this means at the very end. Kills, to a lesser extent, also follow this pattern), and find a player who is not being targeted by anything that affects their action, and whose target is not being targeted in a way that affects their action. For us, this starts with micromorphic, who no one is targeting and affects a whole lot.
micromorphic (Mafia Reflexivizer) Reflexivize Schiavetto: succeeds, Schiavettos action (reflexivizer) will fail, and will instead be applied reflexively. They are thus a reflexive reflexivizer.
This action affects so many people targeting Schia that it’s vital to resolve it early, beyond that though there’s a lot of freedom. The player targeting Schia are the next best bet to look at, as they will become reflexive themself, affecting ever more people, and no one is targeting them adversely.
penguind (Wild Card SI) Wild card Schiavetto: action will fail and instead be applied reflexively, becomes reflexive wild card.
Clouds (2S Multiplier, gifted OS Cop by Teacher N1) Cop Schiavetto, multiply Edjeanerations: Cop will fail (receives no result), becomes reflexive cop. We’ll deal with the multiply later
Snaquaza (Confidant) Confidant Clouds: This causes Clouds to cop Snaq in return due to being reflexive, but let's resolve investigatives in the end, as promised. Cops Schia (again becomes reflexive cop and receives no result), multiplies Edj. Multiplication on Edj will go through though, causing Edj to avoid everyone.
cyan talon (Alien Contrary, Gifted OS Cop by Teacher N3) Cop Schiavetto: becomes reflexive cop, we’ll deal with their results later too.
Bus driver is basically always a good thing to resolve asap if no one is targeting the bus driver, it will affect a lot.
Dasocks (Mafia Bus Driver) Bus drive MyanMario and Abdelrahman: succeeds. This also triggers Myan’s celebrity.
With everyone who can get affected by being targeted resolved, the mass target Edj can now be resolved
Edjeanerations (Avoider) Avoid Clouds: is multiplied by Snaquaza. Causes: Edj to avoid clouds, causing their multiplication to fail. Edj to avoid spiderz, causing their kill to fail. Targets Alex, triggering their psychotrooper button. Targets Peng, causing peng to wild card them unsuccessfully due to being avoided. Avoids reflexive cops Clouds+Snaquaza, causing the two to cop him in return and receive No Result due to being avoided. Targets cuddz, triggering and dodging their PGO, leaving cuddz as vanilla again. Targets Abdelrahman, which gets bus driven to MyanMario, triggering Myan’s celebrity. Targets akakakp, causing their role to get redealt.*
*(A brief note on avoiding reflexive actions: I do not know if this is a thing, and I frankly don't think there is an objective answer as to what should happen due to general vagueness of whether reflexive actions are really targeting. Everyone chose reflexive actions failing, so I amended my original solution slightly to follow that. However this meant my original little line about not needing to use aka’s card dealer to be a lie, so I ignored any errors on this part).
And like that, every action that can really affect others is resolved, leaving only the kills and inspects and the big mess all the above has caused them.
Spiderz (Murderous Vigilante) Kill Edjeanerations: fails due to being avoided, dies due to being murderous.
arby (Judge) Judge Abdelrahman: is bus driven to Myan, but the kill fails due to myan not being one of the players who voted for the eliminated player. Wanted to point out that this is one of a few errors that I made and completely did not see- good catch STP.
Alexander489 (Mafia Psychotrooper Button) Kill mmib: succeeds, mmib dies.
Kills are done, inspects can commence!
ForgotToFlush (Compatibility Checker) Check MyanMario and cyan talon: Myan half is bus driven to Abdelrahman, who is currently mafia as it is night 4, triggers cyan’s reflexive cop. I think I goofed this in my final draft cause I wanted the inspect to be between abdel and a townie to cause flip flop confusion but whatever, cyan and abdel are not compatible. Flush receives compatible due to psycho button.
mmib (Gambit Public Cop) Cop penguind: triggers peng’s wild card, causing peng to wild card towards mmib and mmib to self target. Mmib also dies due to Alex’s kill, making their cop succeed. However due to psychotrooper, the host will post “mmib is mafia” as they flip mmib’s role as town. This is one of my favorite resolutions in the puzzle.
Abdelrahman (Flip Flop, gifted OS Cop by teacher N2) Cop Snaquaza: Gets mafia due to psychotrooper. Also triggers snaq’s reflexive cop.
Clouds (2S Multiplier, gifted OS Cop by Teacher N1): in addition to the no result on schia, clouds reflexively cops snaq as mafia (psychotrooper) and gets no result on edj due to avoider.
Snaquaza (Confidant): In addition to the no result on schia above, snaq has reflexively copped: edj, who they get no result on due to avoider, and Abdel, which gets redirected to myan due to bus drive (another thing I errored on originally-a great catch by peng), and causes them to get a mafia result. This triggers myan’s celebrity as well.
cyan talon (Alien Contrary, Gifted OS Cop by Teacher N3). Cyan is, as partially resolved above, reflexive contrary cop, which makes things really fun. Their cop on schia would normally fail (by definition of reflexivizer), but succeeds due to contrary, giving them a mafia result (psycho). No result on flush reflexive cop due to contrary, and a mafia result on edj because their cop is triggered by avoid, avoided, fails, and thus succeeds. This modifier is kind of absurd ngl
With targeting roles resolved, the celebrity (who should basically always be resolved last as they cannot affect any other action and can get super affected by every other action) can clean things up.
MyanMario (Celebrity): reveals Dasocks, Edj, arby, and snaq to have targeted them (celebrity is non targeting, edj can’t avoid it).
Also of note is cuddz loses their pgo shot, and aka card deals someone. But, I’ve forgotten some roles.
Oracles: these guys dont target and aren't targeted, so they can almost be resolved entirely separately. All have multiple possible justifications, which I’ll shoutout my favorite of. This is the place every single player errored: All of these oracles ask a question whose answer is “yes”- however oracle is a binary investigative role and should be inverted by psychotrooper. Thus, they all get no. I think the separation from the main puzzle caused all the goofs here, git gud I guess.
EasyOnTheHills (Oracle): If it was legal, could an infinite loop of action resolution occur tonight? Yes! (result: no). Examples: confidant targets a reflexive wild card (causing them to self target, copying and executing their own target, triggering their reflexive, causing self target again-my example). Wild card targets multiplier and multiplier targets wild card, causing them to self target. This makes the multiplier target everyone, which normally would not lead to anything infinite (as self targeting isnt a thing) but when they target penguind again they will be redirected to themself and multiply everyone again (Rosa’s example). Wild card cards a reflexivized cop, causing cop to trigger and be redirected to themself, triggering cop again and again and again- STP’s example.
aziziller (Oracle): Could town win by the end of the night with no more town deaths? Yes! (result: no). There are a good amount of permutations to this but in short: targeting mafia (micro, socks, abdel) all go on pgo or card dealer and get dealt d4 suicidial townie, in a crazy turn of bad luck. One of the other mafia factional kills alien, alien contary factionally kills them in return (and is reflexivized, causing kill to fail and thus succeed, and final maf is nuked by derz vig.
zorquax (Mafia Oracle): Is it possible for the game to end in a Mafia win by the end of D5 without the use of any PGOs, reflexivizers, or multipliers that happen to be in the setup? Yes! (result:no) I only intended one solution to this question but removed anti cheese requiring a maximum of two deaths to make the answer way harder to find. My answer was simple albeit very hard to find: a townie targets card dealer and gets dealt patron omniscient (note the theme is si2!), and they get voted out next day. The two deaths thing was required as murderous vig has to die or shoot someone. However, with pgo or card dealer dealing out d4 suicidals/dayvigs, it turns out there are enough kills to barely nuke everyone and give maf 4v4 with no way for town to come back. Another good find from STP.
Done! Easy
And if you just want the simple version:
Schiavetto :Action fails due to micro's reflexivizer, becomes reflexive, reflexivizes snaq, clouds, ct, peng
Spiderz: Dies as edj avoids shot
Dasocks: Succeeds
Snaquaza: Copies socks, makes edj mass and becomes reflexive cop. Gets no result on schia due to reflexivize, mafia on flip flop Myan due to bus driver (psychotrooper) and no result on avoider edj
akakakp: Nothing, boring
arby: Bus driven to MyanMario, doesnt kill em (they werent on wagon)
Clouds: Multiply is avoided, cop is made reflexive. Gets no result on schia due to reflexivize, no result on avoider edj and maf on confidant snaq
cuddleszz: PGO activated by avoider but dodged, loses shot
cyan talon: Both becomes reflexive cop and successfully investigates schia as mafia due to it normally failing (psycho), no result on ForgotToFlush (contrary), maf on avoider edj (should fail)
MyanMario: Reveals socks, edj, flush, and arby targeted them
Alexander489: Kill succeeds, button triggered by avoider
micromorphic: Succeeds
penguind: Becomes reflexive wild card, redirects pub cop onto themself
Abdelrahman: Gets Mafia on confidant
mmib: Is self redirected by reflexive wild card, dies to maf kill and reveals self as mafia
Edjeanerations: Action made mass, avoids every player, triggers pgo, psycho button, as well as a bunch of cops, avoids most of em.
ForgotToFlush: CChecks abdel and ct due to bus driver, gets redirected to myan on abdel half and receives compat due to psycho
EasyOnTheHills: In short yes, read long version for details. Result is "no" due to psychotrooper (these "noes" are what every single puzzler missed!)
aziziller: Yes, between pgo and nks there is the fire power. Result is "no" due to psychotrooper
zorquax: Yes, card dealer deals patron omniscient to a townie and they get voted the next day (as well as a secret surprise second possible solution, read the details post!!) Result is "no" due to psychotrooper
Let me know if you think I still have errors in my final answer- its certainly possible!