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Post by Igpay»atinlay on Oct 22, 2014 23:45:00 GMT
I feel like this is an obvious thread, as it is the heart and soul of mafia. So, this is how I scumhunt: Usually (check the Day 1 thread) I NL on day 1. On day 2, the first thing I do is get everyone talking. I pick out the people on the playerlist who haven't talked, and massHL them, or I reaction-test lynch them. (This is why you see me lynching everyone and jumping from target to target.) Activity is a good point of discussion and reaction-lynching inactive people can be helpful. If the person starts contributing as soon as you lynch them, that is the usual sign of a scum. Also, I've found that people that make excuses for being inactive, even if that excuse is verifiable, is usually scummy. One of the scummiest lines in the game is, "But I actually am battling. Check if you don't believe me." TBH, most people that are battling can actively play mafia at the same time. Except me. Despite the fact that activity can help to find scum, many inactive people aren't mafia, and inactivity isn't a good indicator of scum without further scumminess. A good way to ruin town is by mistaking neutral or pro-town actions to be scummy. The most bothersome example is when a bandwagonee gets really mad and starts cussing off the town. When a player gets unreasonably angry for being bandwagoned, that person is almost always town (I take that back, because freaking out is going to turn into a mafia tactic soon). There are other actions that are mistakenly taken as scummy, but I can't thin of them right now. The best way to find scum is to figure out how players act when they are scum. I pay attention to this most often when I am a mafia partner. There are countless players (the one that comes to mind is PKMNuser) who say absolutely nothing all game, and get away with it until mylo or lylo. There are other players who post so often and are so pro-town that they end up leading the town to their doom (the one that comes to mind is rssp1). This is why it's important to get everyone to talk; it gets players like PKMNuser out of their comfort zones. However, you ahve to be wary of like rssp1 and not let them take over the game by bandwagoning inactive users. It's very important to figure out which players tend to lurk when scum and which players tend to be active. tl;dr, I know. I'm just not a bullet-point kind of guy. Even when a teacher tells me to make a bulleted list, I have trouble not paragraphing it. Whenever I make a powerpoint okay I'm ranting now. |
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Secreton
Voteless
An oily face is above.
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Post by Secreton on Oct 23, 2014 0:06:28 GMT
Warning about this, sometimes, lynching to see reactions can get a "scummy" result even when they're pro-town. Happened to me once, since I'm just so bad I couldn't even attempt to prove that I was a villager  . |
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Post by Igpay»atinlay on Oct 23, 2014 0:20:20 GMT
Warning about this, sometimes, lynching to see reactions can get a "scummy" result even when they're pro-town. Happened to me once, since I'm just so bad I couldn't even attempt to prove that I was a villager . Yes, that's a good point. When lynching for reaction, you have to know what is scummy and what isn't. If, directly after the lynch, the person, while ignoring the lynch, slowly starts to become active and try to contribute, that person is likely scum. If the person conforms to the opposite of your grievances (eg. "XXXplayer NLed and said nothing. Heisn't contributing" "/me ul nl lynch YYYplayer he's been fillering"), that person is likely scum. If the player demurs you for the lynch and/or gets angry, the player is likely town. If the player just asks why you lynched them, then there really isn't much information there, as it could go either way. |
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Post by ajhockeystar on Oct 23, 2014 1:47:59 GMT
Don't save it until Day 2, there's no point. Start talking on Day 1, even if you don't get a lynch off, you'll give people an idea of who to use their actions on.
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Post by rssp1 on Oct 23, 2014 5:41:37 GMT
Honestly, I still stick with my point of talking on Day 1 and then actually starting to lynch on D2. Also, notice when people's actions change from how they normally act; it may mean they have a role they don't enjoy (like villager for most people) or they may be trying to hide that they have a pr.
Also in regards to people being pro-town, the nice/annoying thing about the strategy is that you never know if the person is town or mafia. You have to look for slight slips, I guess.
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Post by Fort Colorcastle on Oct 23, 2014 6:18:52 GMT
Scumhunting is never a precise art. I'm a complete idiot at it, but as a cop I have typically found that people who give a reason while bandwagoning have a 75% (give or take of course) success rate of being scum. It's not a lynchedworthy crime because townies also do it occasionally, but like for many people it's an auto-reaction to justify themselves if they are scum. . But if I'm a cop, and there's only 1-2 guys giving reasons on the traditional d1 nl bw, I investigate them first.
basically, if they give a reason while bandwagoning, then watch them for more signs.
Obviously, now that I've said this it won't work anymore.
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Post by pikacal on Oct 27, 2014 16:44:21 GMT
Warning about this, sometimes, lynching to see reactions can get a "scummy" result even when they're pro-town. Happened to me once, since I'm just so bad I couldn't even attempt to prove that I was a villager . Yes, that's a good point. When lynching for reaction, you have to know what is scummy and what isn't. If, directly after the lynch, the person, while ignoring the lynch, slowly starts to become active and try to contribute, that person is likely scum. If the person conforms to the opposite of your grievances (eg. "XXXplayer NLed and said nothing. Heisn't contributing" "/me ul nl lynch YYYplayer he's been fillering"), that person is likely scum. If the player demurs you for the lynch and/or gets angry, the player is likely town. If the player just asks why you lynched them, then there really isn't much information there, as it could go either way. Half the time, i just ignore the lynch whether I'm scum or not. Giving a reaction is the worst thing you can do in some cases, for example if the players go 'ur pissed about my lynch r u scum???'. It really just depends on the players and what you should be doing to avoid the gaze of others if you're scum. In terms of my scum hunting, i would recommend looking out for people who are dead certain on one person and pushing like hell to get this person lynched. When this does happen, quite often it can b scum who suspect a power role or someone else. |
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Post by Igpay»atinlay on Oct 27, 2014 18:30:04 GMT
I disagree. The scum usually doesn't draw attention to itself like that. If someone is vehemently pushing for a lynch on someone, that person is usually invested in scumhunting. I do this all the time as town. The indifferent person is usually scum imo.
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Post by rssp1 on Oct 27, 2014 20:38:04 GMT
I feel like it depends on the playstyle; for example, no matter what my role, I generally ignore/don't take randlynches on me seriously.
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Post by Igpay»atinlay on Oct 28, 2014 0:13:19 GMT
I usually just ask why. I also have a very random and aggressive playstyle that I use no matter my role to hide my alignment. It gets me lynched a lot.
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Post by pikacal on Oct 30, 2014 23:28:04 GMT
I disagree. The scum usually doesn't draw attention to itself like that. If someone is vehemently pushing for a lynch on someone, that person is usually invested in scumhunting. I do this all the time as town. The indifferent person is usually scum imo. Ehh i guess, it's happened before to me and i personally have seen it lots but i guess it just depends on the situation and other things too, as scumhunting is about finding the small things that may give away the bigger picture. |
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Post by champetero on Oct 31, 2014 0:48:43 GMT
To be honest when I scumhunt I have 2 very different ways of going:
1)When I really don't care about the game I usually just lurk a bit then jump in conversations when I see something scummy, I really have the same playstyle with both mafia and town here.
2)This is when I'm actually playing, I normally try to lead the town no matter what side I am by pressuring people, the main way I pressure people is just asking questions and trying to find consistencies players have with there playstyles.
Something VERY important in scumhunting is separating scum behavior from town behavior, usually there are a few pointers you can have on what things are what behavior but really the best way to separate scum and town behavior is by knowing a players playstyle, every player has a different playstyle depending on which side he is, even if he says he has the same playstyle there will always be some specific things that make them apart. For example transmuter has very similar playstyles but when he is town he plays a bit more scummy like he becomes overly defensive and he starts to make more gut lynches, like when he is scum he doesn't lynch without having evidence.
Also something that really pisses me off is the fact people waste day 1 pretty much every game, day 1 is probably the most important day because having a bad day 1 means mafia has a HUGE advantage right from the start which is really hard to lose unless they get bastard or something(see:star fox. Even if you don't lynch day 1 generating discussion day 1 is really important.
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Post by Igpay»atinlay on Oct 31, 2014 20:28:58 GMT
Legitimate points.
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Post by ajhockeystar on Oct 31, 2014 23:33:17 GMT
It really annoys me when someone says something along the lines of "Let's scumhunt", because by announcing that you are, everyone is going to know not to react oddly to anything you do. If you're gonna pressure people, just do it and don't say you're going to do it it.
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Post by Igpay»atinlay on Nov 1, 2014 1:26:03 GMT
I've never noticed reactions to people saying, "let's scumhunt," but I would think that that would make it appealing to the mafia to lurk.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 1:59:44 GMT
I have nothing to contribute here.
Am posting to inspire activity.
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Post by Mdevil on Apr 19, 2015 20:07:09 GMT
What I'm about to say isn't really advice or strategy, but more some things to remember when scumhunting. First of all, generalized rules of Town does X and Scum does Y simply doesn't work imo. That is way too metagame dependent and so can lead to a lot of mislynches. Of course, those sorts of rules are good to have in your back pocket as a guideline, but in order to scumhunt most effectively you have to be relatively familiar with the other players' playstyles. Basically, just always keep in mind who you are trying to formulate a read on before you attempt to lynch.
The other thing I wanted to bring up is pretty straight forward, but definitely needs to be mentioned, in my opinion. Finding scum doesn't win games. That sounds weird, but it's true. You can have every scum figured out on Day 1 in a 60 player game of Vanilla, but that means nothing if you can't convince other players to lynch them. What I mean to say with that is that sometimes it's better to either hold in a read until you have something more quantifiable or to do blanket reads so a scum doesn't feel you are solely suspecting them. This also ties in to the other related point; you can't get someone lynched if you are dead. Don't tunnel hard on someone, no matter how obvious they seem to be as scum to you. We are all guilty of this sometimes, and most of the time it doesn't work out well; either Town kills you for tunneling, or Mafia kills you for finding scum.
These should be pretty basic, but no reason not to mention it. Also I hope it might incite more talk.
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Post by Mdevil on Apr 30, 2015 6:32:10 GMT
I want more activity in this thread, because there is definitely more to be said on the topic than what has been said. To that end, here is some more general stuff to keep in mind when looking for scum.
Something you always have to remember; scum don't work alone. This is, of course, not in reference to third parties, but mafia. The very point of the term scum is that they know something town doesn't; their partners. If you aren't considering who could possibly be a scums partner, then your read isn't really as solid as you might think. The better way to put this is that you always have to think in terms of endgame. If you lynch your only scumread, then you basically have nowhere to go from there, even if they do flip scum. You need a game plan; a list of potential partners really helps here.
There's another really basic tool that a lot of people don't use when playing that they really should; townreading. Approaching the game so as solely trying to find scum is effective, obviously, but why make it hard on yourself. A vital part of being able to scumread is being able to townread. If everybody in the game except for two players are a townread for you, don't be afraid to start a campaign against the last two on that basis. Even if townreading doesn't directly net a scum, it can narrow options and simply make your life a lot easier. Every game that you can, try and find the Doctor before the scum does. Why? because you know the scum wants to find the Doctor. Say you feel very confident that Player X is the Doc. You then spot that Player Y seems to be catching on to this fact as well, and the next night Player X spontaneously dies. this kind of thing can point to Player Y being scum in many cases (This is not a guaranteed scumtell; do not treat it as such).
This next point kind of fits in with my last post in that it encourages not tunneling. This time, however, it's not because you could get lynched. Something that is really helpful a lot of the time, from my experience, is to pretend you don't even have a vote; act like a treestump. Treestumps can have a massive impact on the game, even without a vote. The reason I find this helpful is because if you are focused too much on your own actions, then you tend to miss a lot of what happens around you. if you are watching carefully you could see a softclaim between two players that nobody else catches. if you aren't worried about your own actions, you can hold people accountable for things they say that other people may have forgotten. You don't have to literally ignore your vote, just sometimes take a step back and try looking at the game as if an observer to see if there isn't something you missed when you were preoccupied with your own conversations or lynches or whatever. All that being said, you don't want to get yourself lynched for lurking. You need a balance.
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Post by pikacal on Apr 30, 2015 11:36:09 GMT
There's another really basic tool that a lot of people don't use when playing that they really should; townreading. Approaching the game so as solely trying to find scum is effective, obviously, but why make it hard on yourself. A vital part of being able to scumread is being able to townread. If everybody in the game except for two players are a townread for you, don't be afraid to start a campaign against the last two on that basis. Even if townreading doesn't directly net a scum, it can narrow options and simply make your life a lot easier. Every game that you can, try and find the Doctor before the scum does. Why? because you know the scum wants to find the Doctor. Say you feel very confident that Player X is the Doc. You then spot that Player Y seems to be catching on to this fact as well, and the next night Player X spontaneously dies. this kind of thing can point to Player Y being scum in many cases (This is not a guaranteed scumtell; do not treat it as such). This next point kind of fits in with my last post in that it encourages not tunneling. This time, however, it's not because you could get lynched. Something that is really helpful a lot of the time, from my experience, is to pretend you don't even have a vote; act like a treestump. Treestumps can have a massive impact on the game, even without a vote. The reason I find this helpful is because if you are focused too much on your own actions, then you tend to miss a lot of what happens around you. if you are watching carefully you could see a softclaim between two players that nobody else catches. if you aren't worried about your own actions, you can hold people accountable for things they say that other people may have forgotten. You don't have to literally ignore your vote, just sometimes take a step back and try looking at the game as if an observer to see if there isn't something you missed when you were preoccupied with your own conversations or lynches or whatever. All that being said, you don't want to get yourself lynched for lurking. You need a balance. This so much. Scumreading is hard to do sometimes where people are just merging together and offering the same ideas. Besides from that, there has been so many times have I just tunnelled the fuck out of my scum read to find out that there was no point in it, and I should have looked closer at my town reads. Best way about this imo is to actually take a step back, and look for possible teams from a neutral standpoint, even if that would include you in the teams. Also look at the major town reads. Usually one or two people will have them up high, and people may just roll with it. If people are just following the general consensus, ask them why they're doing that, and what they could offer besides from just being a copycat and mixing things together. |
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Post by EeveeLution Army on Aug 31, 2016 22:43:04 GMT
There is a major difference between pressure And tunnel although both are used to get information tunnel can lead to dead townies while pressure can give you reads on different people. I need to work on this myself.
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Post by Bomb Moss on Sept 1, 2016 5:58:37 GMT
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Post by epicsnorlax on Sept 5, 2016 7:26:03 GMT
Mfw people use the forums
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Post by VigilanteVigoroth on Sept 5, 2016 18:32:37 GMT
mfw epicsnorlax sux
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 19:18:01 GMT
scum hunting is easy but also hard
you have to look for scum, but if you find a town then that's ok
all you have to do is look at them and say 'is this person scum' and you say that out loud
at that point you've done your duties for the game and are allowed to lurk for the rest of the time
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Post by Bomb Moss on Sept 6, 2016 1:41:55 GMT
No. There is a much better way. It's called rigging the random.org or on the server rig the room bot.
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