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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 4:24:15 GMT
Since the vote are spiderz and PTSD, I would go with the safe option and go let PTSD die since their death would help contribute to getting better reads on other players. Plus PTSD also Sus So I guess PTSD dying works today. not something you say 12 minutes before dl with a locked wagon on town imo (as scum)
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 4:30:27 GMT
Since the vote are spiderz and PTSD, I would go with the safe option and go let PTSD die since their death would help contribute to getting better reads on other players. Plus PTSD also Sus So I guess PTSD dying works today. not something you say 12 minutes before dl with a locked wagon on town imo (as scum) actually it was 3v2 between ptsd and spiderz at that point I think you would probably feel some pressure to explain why you weren't voting for your partner there if you were scum so if this is scum bgb it seems like it's with derz although a derz red flip would not make bgb a primary suspect to me necessarily still considering exactly how valuable I think this evidence is
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 4:37:04 GMT
Why vote genny when there has been 0 pressure on them and it’s 20 minutes until day end? this seems more or less to be avoiding the bigger issue of Me and Derz. Do you believe that Me and Derz is TvT? This guy does need some pressure. My thought right now are: Spiderz and genny has more scum flip chance then PTSD hold on what he said this less than 20 minutes before the previous post I quoted he voted genny here after saying this when derz was a wagon with actual traction and after people pointed out to him that the genny vote was meaningless he went "eh, ptsd flip is alright I guess" what? That's very scummy to me but rn I'm thinking about if it's only something scum would do because derz was their partner or if I would expect scum to be more likely to trip up like this regardless of whether or not it was their partner they were avoiding voting
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 4:50:13 GMT
I had 3 options right now
#1 Take the risk on spiderz
#2 Go with the safe option which is PTSD dying
#3 Let both live
I think town would benefit from option 3 the most right now. So I would love to keep both slots alive as it would benefit town the most.
Meant to post this yesterday. I'll just post this for anyone curious about my decision and for PTSD #RIP. No death is interesting. hm it somewhat explains the previous voting pattern but... like the best thing to do in that position as town is obvious if your voting priority is genny > spiderz > ptsd Maybe you might start on genny even though it's 30 minutes before dl and no one else is voting them but then once it is quickly made obvious that genny is not viable you would switch to spiderz. It's not normal for town to just sit on this wagon alone which clearly does not have the time to develop when their third preferred candidate is currently dying over their second preferred one. I don't like the backtracking from "I think genny and derz are more likely to flip scum than ptsd" to "ptsd is the safe option" which is completely arbitrary and sounds like a made up reason to not have switched. tbh I might be biased here because getting on random wagons like this is the sort of thing I do as scum sometimes that I would never do as town because it isn't productive
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 4:55:49 GMT
According to Am role, I guess it's possible that I was targeted by OM on night 2. Do you have the Diamond? (important) Not sure how to answer this with breaking rules. I did not receive any diamonds, no
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 5:05:32 GMT
Dudz Whats your take on spiderz
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:09:34 GMT
Litteleven progression
In that pile of nothing, you found a guess read. So how come in that pile of nothing you decide to not continue to vote your guess read which was probably the most optimum thing you had at that point. The part that throws me off is that you put enough effort to create a frivolous reason, which makes me out of the Player list You choose someone who you guessed might be scum based on some random emotion because there was nothing better to do. After doing that you choose not to follow through because they already had a lynch. Anyways I think I would give some Town points here for Litteleven for that whole progression. This is kinda hard to understand, but I'm extremely confused on why you gave town points on Litt from this seemingly NAI post, when it seemed like you had a lot of issues with the progression. I don't even think this is really progression at all but thats not the issue here IMO. I have an issue with you randomly TRing Litt for this. That Boy Spiderz SUS
1. That seemed like a dodge attempted. They probably asked because it matters to them. Attempting to see someone reaction before answering the question seems like shady maneuvering 2. You came to a conclusion of "xyz is pushing" based on that quote you mention? what you tryna do? Ok I just want to note the SR on me, I still don't get the second point but just note there attempted pressure on me. Thoughts on Choas
Choas remarks on suspecting spiderz seemed to be rushed without much concrete evidence. I personally don't like the callout during RVS phase but it seemed to spark some conversation. Choas has continue to make something out of nothing. Choas is falling into my "day 1 towncore" category. Choas and Spiderz are likely Not S/S This is kinda like the Litt thing, where you spout your issues with the slot but then proceed to TR it, and I also want to note that the "Choas and Spiderz are likely Not S/S" is a very weird read to give there, I feel like a better conclusion is that "Spiderz and Chaos's interactions felt genuine" but this is a small person grievance, S/S feels like the "safe" read to give for scum. You said PTSD was pushing me which seems like a overstatement You now said PTSD is Super blood thirsty which also seems like a overstatement Not sure if this is suppose oppturnistic or just a genuine overconfident read So you say this to pressure me again, but it doesn't look like you are actually scum hunting with this read, and your SR on me looks a lot more fake, primarily because you never followed up on your read with me, nor did you really react to my responses or give your thoughts on them, wether you thought they were town or scum indicative. passthesaltdude now that Spiderz have given you an response now that Spiderz has pushed you with strong diction What do you think of his alignment? This looks like he's trying to feed into the PTSD vs Me wagon by trying to focus discussion there, also connects back to like, what were you looking for when you asked these questions if you are going to just respond to other people's pressure on PTSD, you aren't really following up with your thoughts here. It's like you are asking questions with no purpose in order to look townie. PTSD on "trying to look town"
I agree with Spiderz here with the attempted of trying to look town But, not the blood thirsty accusation. After going through PTSD iso most of their post does look pro-progression. But I still was in question whether they were just posts from someone who want the game to pick up or someone trying to look townie. This is the post that convinced me after the consistency of a pro-progression approach that makes me think that this slot may been trying a little too hard to look town then the average townie with this post right here. Like Bruh "I know its a little hard to get read on the 3 new people" "how many scum you think they are" That post just seems like a political response, if you know what I mean because It seem like the right thing to say. I think this post is pretty townie, I'm not gonna talk about a lot of the flaws in reasoning I see in these posts because I don't think they are AI. The notable thing is the switch up in reads, but again this wasn't a result of his questioning from the prior day, so the purpose of those questions still remain genny Your Sticking with PTSD vote? This genny progression sucks so much, I don't think I need to explain why. What do we gain be sending someone in the future? and Who would be the best option? This is more of him asking questions for the sake of looking townie or w/e, IG they could be with the intent of generating discussion but it's whatever, I'm kinda wavering on this read because it might just be how the slot plays, but i'm sensing too much ingenuity, and it's undeniably scummy. this would be the thing pointing against a derz/bgb scumteam My impression of playing with derz in a recent discord game was that he isn't actually the biggest busser. At the very least from what I know of him I wouldn't expect him to make this large post calling to attention several posts of his partner, albeit that is only coming from 1 game of experience in a different medium so I certainly can't rule out the possibility entirely. The thing to sort out here for me is mainly: would scum!Spiderz actually expect this to go anywhere? I think he would, or at the very least probably wouldn't risk it with a partner. With 1-2 things against someone you can maybe expect that those points won't be strong enough to actually get them hanged, but to bring out this many points and expect none of them to stick sounds like a stretch. because of this I'm scrapping the bgb-spiderz scumteam idea for now. I definitely don't think it's impossible but at the very least I don't think it's more likely than the default
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:18:45 GMT
Since the vote are spiderz and PTSD, I would go with the safe option and go let PTSD die since their death would help contribute to getting better reads on other players. Plus PTSD also Sus So I guess PTSD dying works today. not something you say 12 minutes before dl with a locked wagon on town imo (as scum) so I'm back here and I still don't think tacitly agreeing with a mischop right before that mistake is about to be exposed is something scum would do unless they were defending their partner or at least not this scum I get the impression from all the weird voting and "genny is scum because I jked her and I'm going to assume everyone else is telling the truth" that bgb for the most part is not playing from a "meticulously plan everything and profit from town's wifom" perspective. If bgb is scum this game I expect him to play somewhat standardly, just trying to be read as town and keeping his partners alive. So I definitely don't think he did this expecting to get townleaned for it, in fact if you know ptsd is town on a surface level the post feels super scummy. I think that's the kind of post someone playing somewhat standardly would steer clear from unless you were protecting your partner.
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:23:36 GMT
This guy does need some pressure. My thought right now are: Spiderz and genny has more scum flip chance then PTSD hold on what he said this less than 20 minutes before the previous post I quoted he voted genny here after saying this when derz was a wagon with actual traction and after people pointed out to him that the genny vote was meaningless he went "eh, ptsd flip is alright I guess" what? That's very scummy to me but rn I'm thinking about if it's only something scum would do because derz was their partner or if I would expect scum to be more likely to trip up like this regardless of whether or not it was their partner they were avoiding voting I actually cannot at all rule out the possibility town!bgb just does this despite it being probably a bad move as town tbh
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 5:26:24 GMT
targetted dubz again, and rolestopped chaos Targeted dubz again? I believed you showed many signs of them being a town read. Could you explain what made dubz the best target? I think I missing some progression there.
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 5:35:36 GMT
quojova Im here if you have any questions
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:46:28 GMT
I was expected there to be a death today. Anyways I think I may have figure something here spiderz litteleven maple Since Yall have hinted having roles that allow you to target someone. Who did yall target Last night? so I've reached here one thing I had wrong about this in my memory was that we currently have people TLing/TRing maple and litt off their weird/reaction-fishing claims and something in the back of my mind was considering if bgb playing very simply just decided to do something similar for the townpoints. But given the reaction around maple and litt at this point -- they had gotten more backlash for their claims than praise -- I don't think it really makes sense for bgb to do this as scum if I'm evaluating from the "bgb is playing this game fairly standardly" framework, at least not in an attempt to make an intentionally weird leap of logic to get trs for that leap of logic. So basically regardless of what alignment he is, he thought the train of logic was sound. As scum would he use a train of logic he thought was completely sound to vote out a player he knew would flip town? It would make him look terrible, and he obviously wouldn't do that because it would naturally call to question if the information he put forward was accurate. So if he was scum doing this he would need to see this claim as being plausible enough to trick the entire town into getting a miskill from the shaky evidence but he himself knowing the logic contained significant holes so he could backtrack to it and have plausible deniability of being scum once genny flipped town. If he understood the leap in logic I don't think would expect the entire town just to miss it. So as scum I don't think he did this for the towncred or to actually get genny killed... so why would he have done it? I might be too deep in the theory hole here ngl
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:52:04 GMT
quojova Im here if you have any questions is there anything else to your role other than the jk ability? if there is something else and you don't want to claim it rn that's okay but I care a lot about an accurate yes/no answer to the question also how do you generally approach playing scum and how complex would you rate your own play as mafia? do you ever go for fakeclaims, gambits, general trickery plays, etc. as scum?
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 5:52:33 GMT
There are 3 non town members left For a person with that sort of information. You dont seemed to have much resolve of sorting out the remaining scum in that bubble. Rather It seems like each day you try to moderately fly under the radar. Who do you think are those remaining 3 non town?
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:53:50 GMT
quojova Im here if you have any questions is there anything else to your role other than the jk ability? if there is something else and you don't want to claim it rn that's okay but I care a lot about an accurate yes/no answer to the question also how do you generally approach playing scum and how complex would you rate your own play as mafia? do you ever go for fakeclaims, gambits, general trickery plays, etc. as scum? i literally forgot you had the whole "hostile element" thing
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 5:59:37 GMT
Hey guys tunning from a panera bread and stealing their free wifi cause scum must of hacked my home internet out of fear :] My Claim
I will claim now as it might help solve some mysteries. I am basically a Jailkeeper with a passive ability to be informed when a hostile targets me for the first time N1 Choas N2 Litteleven; I was targeted by a hostile element N3 idle Since that genny is gone RIP genny That could deduce things that the hostile player must be choas / dubz Since I am unaware if they have any targetable actions. I'll throw in spiderz because they could of been lying. does it tell you were targeted by a hostile element the first time for each hostile player or one time total across all hostile players?
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:00:25 GMT
In advance of a full look into bgb I'll mention that I think the jailkeeper claim is by far the least inspired roles claimed so far. It's certainly not impossible (I mean we have masons in the game) but of all the roles here it does seem one of the most likely to be fabricated. I'm not going to push based on rolemeta alone today (and I don't even really want to make it a large basis of the case at all unless I think it's very compelling) but it will be something I am considering. this is all shot now that remember the other part of bgb's role btw
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 6:04:10 GMT
quojova Im here if you have any questions is there anything else to your role other than the jk ability? if there is something else and you don't want to claim it rn that's okay but I care a lot about an accurate yes/no answer to the question also how do you generally approach playing scum and how complex would you rate your own play as mafia? do you ever go for fakeclaims, gambits, general trickery plays, etc. as scum? Yes I'm pretty much a Jailkeeper I approach the game the same way I do as town which trying to win. I think my town play would be more complex then scum play. I haven't had much scum forum games. No I dont do fakeclaims / gambits/ general trickery plays. I don't need them.
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Post by bluegummybear on Feb 14, 2021 6:06:17 GMT
Hey guys tunning from a panera bread and stealing their free wifi cause scum must of hacked my home internet out of fear :] My Claim
I will claim now as it might help solve some mysteries. I am basically a Jailkeeper with a passive ability to be informed when a hostile targets me for the first time N1 Choas N2 Litteleven; I was targeted by a hostile element N3 idle Since that genny is gone RIP genny That could deduce things that the hostile player must be choas / dubz Since I am unaware if they have any targetable actions. I'll throw in spiderz because they could of been lying. does it tell you were targeted by a hostile element the first time for each hostile player or one time total across all hostile players? One time ability
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:07:01 GMT
ok nothing else in the thread after that from bgb changed my read on him
I honestly feel much better about bgb being town than scorr atp
poe for now is derz/dubz/litt + mayyyybe scorr
that bgb analysis took a while and I will probably sleep soon
I'm worried that by the time I have finished evaluating all these slots fully the time left for wagon progression will be short
vote spiderz
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:18:29 GMT
the other thread is very dank rn
chaos's posts are very :thonk: (in that they're extremely blunt, not that they're necessarily wrong) but in a somewhat similar way to bgb I don't think he would push that az is just mechanically scum in a non-lylo situation if he knew az were town
I don't have as much confidence in that as I do with bgb but it feels about right. in the end it doesn't change my read on chaos too much I guess maybe 2nd-3rd highest townread
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:27:20 GMT
the other thread is very dank rn chaos's posts are very :thonk: (in that they're extremely blunt, not that they're necessarily wrong) but in a somewhat similar way to bgb I don't think he would push that az is just mechanically scum in a non-lylo situation if he knew az were town I don't have as much confidence in that as I do with bgb but it feels about right. in the end it doesn't change my read on chaos too much I guess maybe 2nd-3rd highest townread oh right I was going to actually talk about if az is truly mechanically scum the simple answer to that is of course no... but it seems close. I refuse to believe that mafia has the ability to kill across threads throughout the entire game because that doesn't make any sense from the roles we know so far but it wouldn't surprise me if they had a one-shot ability to do so or something. I guess if that were the case then chaos/lucas could actually be scum alone without someone else from the suspect list but even all that is conjecture and I tr them both to begin with. So the main question to resolve there is if we actually believe in scorr being town I think. If we can determine that for certain I will feel pretty good about the mechanical evidence pointing heavily to az scum. I might read into him again tomorrow if I have time but I'm not really expecting my read on him to change much if I do that tbh. I feel kinda stuck with my read on scorr atm and I'm curious if someone has an angle on him that is novel in some way.
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:32:02 GMT
I'm honestly considering No Lynch I need to stay here. My ability to pull someone is ready, and rn it's the only way to fix the game. I don't want to send you in exchange for another SR, as having two SRs is pointless. the stressing of the 'i must help the town' feeling in this post feels a bit over the top. I feel a bit tunnelish like I did with ani rn though because it's where the mechanical evidence points me so I might hold off on pushing az seriously until I sleep on it that's also not what I need to be working on this phase so
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:34:03 GMT
how exactly does chaos know one of derz/dubz is scum from bgb's info?
I'm not getting it
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Post by quojova on Feb 14, 2021 6:35:26 GMT
also will mention that litt using rolestopper on chaos does not protect him so az did not attack chaos on n4 unless something weird happened
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