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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 6:18:21 GMT
just so I and everyone else has this for reference unless something crazy happens, my personal hangpool for today is ZoL, ddw, bluegummybear, lieb, chad, and yash why is everythin I want to say already said by you thisthisthisthisthis |
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 6:25:22 GMT
instead of doing responses to ur responses in blue, ill just list normally.
instance1:im not saying that fj softed traitor, its that if litt was scum, he THOUGHT fj was traitor. so will a scum try to push their own traitor, which is a complete misplay? that is my question.
instance 3:I read your first statement wrong soz, but now it's even worse. ayia was NOT a strong town during d1, idk for sure but ayia had plur at the time of litt asking them to claim. idk what's wrong with that.
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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 6:25:37 GMT
Day 1 Quick Thoughts
Star symbol- ActiveHe's very active and seems to be very frank with hes reactions/moments. Which I think Is a more Town trait then Mafia trait but then again it can always be play-style thing. Also agreeing with lieb here with him being genuine Lieb- NullLate entrance, However, When he the post regarding ayia and Star symbol he does seem to leave off on a great townish note. But there not much to go off other than that. Day 2 updates Star symbol- Active
Nothing much, However, I didn't like how he came late on the "what was that night kill" reaction seems a little "bandwaggon-y" to me Lieb- Null
Nothing to add from day 2, however he did town read a flipped scum. I guess .... OverallStar symbol- Active
userI dont see much reason to think this slot is worthy of a lynch right now. I would say he has more points on the townie spectrum Lieb- Null, Needs more contentI dont see any reason not to lynch him, I guess .... But if they are any better options I would rather push that Note: - There Nothing I can Determine that makes them a strong indicator for scum/town as of right now
- I am holding back a little since I wasn't in the presence of the discussion and dont want to dwell too much in the past.
- If I finish in time I will Do Ayia and scept shortly
- Z_Z
This post seems extremely and almost in a scary way, genuine AF. I don't know why but my gut is telling me BGB is town This post seems extremely and almost in a scary way, pockety AF. I don't know why but my gut I need to rethink my tr on Yash okay honestly I just don't know what you see about it as genuine it's a fine post but not enough to declare a read here |
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 6:29:06 GMT
yashgreninja I think you're basing too many of your reads on the facts that town knows NOW, but the thing is, we didnt d1, so you can't really base your arguments around that. while scumhunting, after thinking that 'does an action make sense for this as scum' you should think 'does this action make sense for them to be town'.
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 6:31:33 GMT
scumpool:zol lieb yash myo fj(traitor maybe)
bgb is still null for me.
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 10:28:17 GMT
unvote zol vote lieb
this is getting subed anyway so I'd rather push a read
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Post by litteleven on Jun 24, 2020 11:23:09 GMT
For some of these I actually agree with qtball ngl. I'm going to post this for the third time today but it still stands and hasn't been addressed by your post in a satisfactory way: "I am going to have a hard time buying into any wagon for a player that voted for trem if the argument for it doesn't start with something like "this is the mafia rationale behind bussing here", preferably also followed by why this is not only possible but probable. " "Litt would have easily been able to get away with bussing there." is something you really have to explain, not just say. "He's actually most likely traitor if anything" also makes no sense to me you have to actually work through the logic on this. I don't know if I'm speaking for everyone who thinks Litt is a plausible lynch/SR, but regarding your wanting of a proper explanation as to why Litt probably bussed: unlynch lifesucc lynch forever jokerflunked my vote earlier "Well for starters its just a day 1 read. It could change later on but I think mafia could of kept their mouth shut easily. Like they could of tried to gain plurality later on without revealing their plan. Litteleven could be mafia but right now I'm just guessing You looked into a slight read too much tbh" - forever joker earlier i can't buy dropping a read as soon as people look into the smallest of implications as something town would openly do. it's not even reverting their read more so as distancing themselves from their actions, plus i'm not a fan of the narwhal wagon given both they and the people lynching them aren't really doing anything in game to justify their stance on the lynch Instance #1 of a weak D1 from Litt. They at some point lynched two really strong town reads (I think most people would agree) in lifesucc and FJ, so their head ain't straight. "kind of a problem when everyone you see feels town
I'll give up the farce on my joker lynch since I only meant it to provide pressure to respond (which happened), I have little grounds to sr them given my lynch argument is very very leaky to anyone reading it. Hoped it would be recognised in some form but apparently not.
unlynch forever joker
i also refreshed to see a wallpost but safe to say I don't feel convinced in this lynch
i'm getting pretty townie vibes from lifesucc I'm wondering what's going on with semi baseless accusations going untested/unasked on
lynch pkq
re tremenon their opening statement felt a bit more town hence I'm picking my best idea for an alternate lynch, though they've not done well at all so declaring intent to shift today if they're at equal lynches with another player near day end.
" earlier lines from me. Also FJ only became town after Trem flipped so ?? you're not raising a proper point through pointing to a lynch trail when it's clear I had eod decisions to lynch another set of people.
lifesucc lynch was supposed to spark activity on how policying is bad, which is also what i feel scept wanted by putting out a turbo request? bottom line it has no real intent behind it.
Instance #2: That huge ass strategy post that could've easily been coerced by the Mafia faction. People gave more credit than he deserved for it and I'm not gonna stand for it And it could as easily been posted by Town. The only wrong fact here is that you think anyone gave credit to the person given it's a PSA hence would be NAI. It's obvious that you're either not reading or picking this up to maliciously flavour your read.
ayia please claim, I'm declaring intent shift to you given I can't find a conceivable reason for you to lynch pkq other than to use my town vote as a set up to cw Instance #3: Trying to force a D1 claim out of a strong town for lynching PKQ of all people, and keep in mind this happened way before PKQ claimed BG. You say this after AYIA stated a days worth of scumreads on trem and shifted to... PKQ? For no apparent reason at the time? Note that AYIA would have 3 votes at the time so my vote would put ayia past counterwagonability without the decisive shift happening while I typed it out. Calling them strong town reinforces the fact that you weren't reading the game state at the time. The whole point of asking for a claim is to avoid needing to rely on a 4 minute mass shift and Trem could have easily flipped Tracker because of the lack of response time. Good in hindsight, yes. Good mafia play? Not. Wagons should ideally have been resolved around that time (28 minutes before DL) and I will stand by that play. i think the play is trem too but i believe there was something good happening with the ayia lynch I don't think they deserve the lynch as much as some other people but it's my gut read that they're more likely to be scum in this scenario Instance #4: Rather than actually playing by his beliefs, he's trying to play by the beliefs and ideals of most people in the game to appeal to them. How are you just gonna say Trem is a better lynch than Ayia when you don't SR Trem but you DO SR Ayia? This instance of scummy gameplay can be brought down in terms of credibility since Trem flipped scum, but I'm 95% sure that wasn't any of Litt's intention when shifting off of their actual scumreads and jumping on a wagon. This goes back to my post in response to arc's scumpool where I agreed that Litt probably bussed because a 6 wagon on scum is bound to have at LEAST one scum on it.
This is purely malicious. "the play" = the right play for town. Don't twist words in order to appeal to the masses, AYIA wagon wasn't happening after the decisive unlynch so I immediately retracted that statement. It's not like I didn't have a built argument around shifting to trem at that point in that I supported a random decision for town to gain credibility, rather me sticking to my reads while lamenting the AYIA lynch breaking down over a shift.
Ironically after typing all of this, I find it more of a possibility that Litt is scum in comparison to ZoL just being dumb and not actually PLAYING THE GAME. unlynch zestoflife, lynch Litt.
The only possibility I find is that you either ignored half the game and are making surface reads to fit your claims; or you're intentionally obscuring facts to break down a towncore you're decidedly not in, the latter of which would imply you're scum for lynching me. |
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Post by litteleven on Jun 24, 2020 11:54:34 GMT
3x3 sounds nice, note I'm factoring traitor into my town reads because there's 0 benefit to lynching one (outside them being jestery in other aspects)
3 TRs:
quo
lifesucc
ayia
first 2 feel self explanatory, uni trs: my AYIA read has greatly shifted after reading through their actions from earlier days in their push to secure lynch on tremenon; i'm of the opinion they rethought their lynch on trem as the reason they went for a PKQ lynch that late which was very suspicious for me + them aggressively not recognising a self TR worthy action rings town for me.
circumstantially town:
ForeverJoker - trem lynch (can be joker) but pretty sure they don't flip goon
arctina / star / dragondriftway - idt trem would take a neutral-scumlean stance on a goon being pushed by ayia in that without atleast posting something against ayia, might be wolfing as traitor but I'm not willing to lynch one, though I will say I'm leaning this slot town
PKQ - claim
3 SRs:
lieb - bad surface reads which have 0 backbone to them, plus a vague TR on trem d1 in attempt to sell their slot as misguided town doesn't hold to scrutiny
yash - obligatory mention that I don't have the energy/material to push, rather easier to mechanically find as scum; basically feels scummy to me but I don't have enough information at this point to commit to a lynch
zol - cop out sr sorry I'm dry of reads and any logical argument I make against this slot will be an angleshoot.
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Post by litteleven on Jun 24, 2020 12:04:20 GMT
unlynch zol lynch lieb
makes sense on waiting for a sub while pushing a sr, plus reading back's given enough fodder for this lynch
1. trying to pass of tremenon's statements as bad town
2. trying to lynch ayia on grounds of something just mentioned means they're trying out a perceived easier lynch while not grasping a big picture
3. generally a low activity slot, find it hard they'd go wrong on almost every line said pertaining to the game
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Post by quojova on Jun 24, 2020 13:22:32 GMT
Ok so now that we have Litt's response to yash's wallpost and I can actually make sense of what 3 and 4 are saying we can weigh the arguments for and against Litt:
Reasons why Litt is scum (according to yash):
Litt asked for ayia to claim a bit too early when it looked like the ayia wagon was about to run away.
Litt momentarily held the position that a trem chop was preferable to a pkq one, but that an ayia chop should still be considered.
I'm not including points 1 or 2 because he pretty much admitted they were really weak when talking to me/scept.
Reasons why Litt is town:
Literally chose for the mafia goon to die instead of the bg
(among other things)
I will repost this because I think it still captures my position well:
"I would not be too surprised if a few days down the line when we are thinking about deepwolves we start to dig into these trem wagoners a bit more but I stand firm that none of them are the right chop today, and probably not tomorrow either unless one of them lights themselves on fire with gasoline and starts committing mafia acts immediately in front of our eyes."
Side note: in the one in a million chance that pkq is actually scum, this bus analysis is useless. I don't particularly care about addressing this possible world though, because town is just so far ahead if it happens to be the case.
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Post by quojova on Jun 24, 2020 13:32:08 GMT
I was going to wait on voting lieb until he responded to my question and I could make my full case about him, but it looks like litt and scept have already started on this case and I see little downside in making my stance here clear.
I suggest reading litt's and scept's specific posts on the matter but I'll add the minor point that a lurking player is particularly indicative of scum in this traitor mode, as a traitor risks their life in NKs if they productively contribute.
I also think that lieb fits the description of "relatively inexperienced player" (no serious offence intended) that I was thinking about from the bizarre narwhal kill.
I am fully aware that the above two points are actually incompatible, but I think independently they both raise the chance that Lieb is mafia.
Vote Lieb
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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 15:54:33 GMT
3x3 sounds nice, note I'm factoring traitor into my town reads because there's 0 benefit to lynching one (outside them being jestery in other aspects) 3 TRs: quo lifesucc ayia first 2 feel self explanatory, uni trs: my AYIA read has greatly shifted after reading through their actions from earlier days in their push to secure lynch on tremenon; i'm of the opinion they rethought their lynch on trem as the reason they went for a PKQ lynch that late which was very suspicious for me + them aggressively not recognising a self TR worthy action rings town for me. circumstantially town: ForeverJoker - trem lynch (can be joker) but pretty sure they don't flip goon arctina / star / dragondriftway - idt trem would take a neutral-scumlean stance on a goon being pushed by ayia in that without atleast posting something against ayia, might be wolfing as traitor but I'm not willing to lynch one, though I will say I'm leaning this slot town PKQ - claim 3 SRs: lieb - bad surface reads which have 0 backbone to them, plus a vague TR on trem d1 in attempt to sell their slot as misguided town doesn't hold to scrutiny yash - obligatory mention that I don't have the energy/material to push, rather easier to mechanically find as scum; basically feels scummy to me but I don't have enough information at this point to commit to a lynch zol - cop out sr sorry I'm dry of reads and any logical argument I make against this slot will be an angleshoot. umm okay these are kind of fair but also this sort of seems safe? that last one is kinda silly but w/e i'll take it, I can do my wallpost analysis of Litt now |
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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 15:57:59 GMT
scumpool:zol lieb yash myo fj(traitor maybe) bgb is still null for me. This matches mine except -Yash +Litt and a tentative +bgb just for lack of info |
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Post by pkq on Jun 24, 2020 15:58:50 GMT
Ok guys I am sorry for my inactivity. Been going through some real-life fuckin shit and I am just trying to keep up. I am mostly up to date on what everyone is saying is just making my points is the problem and I want to make those points before the day ends. I will do my best later, but I can't make any promises. Also, can someone show me how to quote multiple people and tag them because I am still new to this. And with that good night to all. select posts using the cog icon, then all selected posts will be there when you click reply. Still can see where I select the all post section |
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Post by pkq on Jun 24, 2020 15:59:50 GMT
Never mind I see where I messed up
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 16:08:51 GMT
the 3x3 thing seems kinda pointless to me? just give your scumpool and townpool, and only explain a read if you have a new take on it, otherwise it's basically just repeating and being pointless really.
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Post by quojova on Jun 24, 2020 16:13:13 GMT
3x3 sounds nice, note I'm factoring traitor into my town reads because there's 0 benefit to lynching one (outside them being jestery in other aspects) 3 TRs: quo lifesucc ayia first 2 feel self explanatory, uni trs: my AYIA read has greatly shifted after reading through their actions from earlier days in their push to secure lynch on tremenon; i'm of the opinion they rethought their lynch on trem as the reason they went for a PKQ lynch that late which was very suspicious for me + them aggressively not recognising a self TR worthy action rings town for me. circumstantially town: ForeverJoker - trem lynch (can be joker) but pretty sure they don't flip goon arctina / star / dragondriftway - idt trem would take a neutral-scumlean stance on a goon being pushed by ayia in that without atleast posting something against ayia, might be wolfing as traitor but I'm not willing to lynch one, though I will say I'm leaning this slot town PKQ - claim 3 SRs: lieb - bad surface reads which have 0 backbone to them, plus a vague TR on trem d1 in attempt to sell their slot as misguided town doesn't hold to scrutiny yash - obligatory mention that I don't have the energy/material to push, rather easier to mechanically find as scum; basically feels scummy to me but I don't have enough information at this point to commit to a lynch zol - cop out sr sorry I'm dry of reads and any logical argument I make against this slot will be an angleshoot. umm okay these are kind of fair but also this sort of seems safe? that last one is kinda silly but w/e i'll take it, I can do my wallpost analysis of Litt now I mean it's not a mindblowing 3x3, I'll give you that, but if I were to make a 3x3 right now it would look almost identical to that, with maybe slightly different placements on ddw or yash (although I can definitely see where he gets this feeling from on yash). Would you call me out on being "safe" for posting that? These readlists don't have to be groundbreaking to come from a town perspective by any means. If you find a particular read he has here is just him going with the townflow and needs to be explained, push him on it. |
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 16:16:36 GMT
3x3 sounds nice, note I'm factoring traitor into my town reads because there's 0 benefit to lynching one (outside them being jestery in other aspects) 3 TRs: quo lifesucc ayia first 2 feel self explanatory, uni trs: my AYIA read has greatly shifted after reading through their actions from earlier days in their push to secure lynch on tremenon; i'm of the opinion they rethought their lynch on trem as the reason they went for a PKQ lynch that late which was very suspicious for me + them aggressively not recognising a self TR worthy action rings town for me. circumstantially town: ForeverJoker - trem lynch (can be joker) but pretty sure they don't flip goon arctina / star / dragondriftway - idt trem would take a neutral-scumlean stance on a goon being pushed by ayia in that without atleast posting something against ayia, might be wolfing as traitor but I'm not willing to lynch one, though I will say I'm leaning this slot town PKQ - claim 3 SRs: lieb - bad surface reads which have 0 backbone to them, plus a vague TR on trem d1 in attempt to sell their slot as misguided town doesn't hold to scrutiny yash - obligatory mention that I don't have the energy/material to push, rather easier to mechanically find as scum; basically feels scummy to me but I don't have enough information at this point to commit to a lynch zol - cop out sr sorry I'm dry of reads and any logical argument I make against this slot will be an angleshoot. umm okay these are kind of fair but also this sort of seems safe? that last one is kinda silly but w/e i'll take it, I can do my wallpost analysis of Litt now I mean, if it's their reads its their reads? I can see how they are basically mostly universal, but I don't see anything wrong with that in this case. I agree with all of the reads here. |
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Post by Schrodinger on Jun 24, 2020 16:17:14 GMT
umm okay these are kind of fair but also this sort of seems safe? that last one is kinda silly but w/e i'll take it, I can do my wallpost analysis of Litt now I mean it's not a mindblowing 3x3, I'll give you that, but if I were to make a 3x3 right now it would look almost identical to that, with maybe slightly different placements on ddw or yash (although I can definitely see where he gets this feeling from on yash). Would you call me out on being "safe" for posting that? These readlists don't have to be groundbreaking to come from a town perspective by any means. If you find a particular read he has here is just him going with the townflow and needs to be explained, push him on it. snipe smh |
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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 16:21:54 GMT
unlynch lifesucc lynch forever jokerflunked my vote earlier "Well for starters its just a day 1 read. It could change later on but I think mafia could of kept their mouth shut easily. Like they could of tried to gain plurality later on without revealing their plan. Litteleven could be mafia but right now I'm just guessing You looked into a slight read too much tbh" - forever joker earlier i can't buy dropping a read as soon as people look into the smallest of implications as something town would openly do. it's not even reverting their read more so as distancing themselves from their actions, plus i'm not a fan of the narwhal wagon given both they and the people lynching them aren't really doing anything in game to justify their stance on the lynch heh I kinda like this post and I kinda underrated it when reading it the first time it's super valid and tone is kinda good but the reasons I was sus of litt was for late D1 so let's continue Regardless, I just did a quick iso of Ayia and nothing and most of the things he's been saying is either prodding other people for reads or the afformentioned content. One thing I'd like to mention is that Ayia specifically prodded FJ to give reads instead of other inactive members at this given moment above. Players including myself hadn't outed reads and it does feel like ayia is trying to get FJ to talk. I could totally see FJ and Ayia being partners who is triyng to get FJ to contribute so people unvote. Just a little thing I would like to put out there if FJ ends up being lynched. I understand how this makes Ayia look terrible, but you also have to remember the biggest suspect of D1 is FJ, so it's somewhat justified, though I'll admit you're fully correct about how he isn't focusing on any other low-activity playets, which is slightly suspicious. I'm interrupting my Litt wall because I thought this interaction is interesting mainly because it involves two of the scummier players in the game rn quojova yashgreninja Schrodinger litteleven Can this Arctina response be a response to a known scumpartner? If not, the only way they're both scum is if lieb is traitor and arctina is pure mafia I'd like your thoughts here; I'm kinda neutral and can see it both ways |
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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 16:24:14 GMT
umm okay these are kind of fair but also this sort of seems safe? that last one is kinda silly but w/e i'll take it, I can do my wallpost analysis of Litt now I mean, if it's their reads its their reads? I can see how they are basically mostly universal, but I don't see anything wrong with that in this case. I agree with all of the reads here. Yes but universal reads are upsetting for two reasons 1. I asked for their reads so I can get a read on them. Universal townreads are bland so they give me nothing from that perspective 2. It doesn't bring anything new to the table at all; no contention, no juice |
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Post by ayia on Jun 24, 2020 16:24:58 GMT
umm okay these are kind of fair but also this sort of seems safe? that last one is kinda silly but w/e i'll take it, I can do my wallpost analysis of Litt nowI mean it's not a mindblowing 3x3, I'll give you that, but if I were to make a 3x3 right now it would look almost identical to that, with maybe slightly different placements on ddw or yash (although I can definitely see where he gets this feeling from on yash). Would you call me out on being "safe" for posting that? These readlists don't have to be groundbreaking to come from a town perspective by any means. If you find a particular read he has here is just him going with the townflow and needs to be explained, push him on it. already working on it, as i said prior |
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Post by quojova on Jun 24, 2020 16:33:03 GMT
I understand how this makes Ayia look terrible, but you also have to remember the biggest suspect of D1 is FJ, so it's somewhat justified, though I'll admit you're fully correct about how he isn't focusing on any other low-activity playets, which is slightly suspicious. I'm interrupting my Litt wall because I thought this interaction is interesting mainly because it involves two of the scummier players in the game rn quojova yashgreninja Schrodinger litteleven Can this Arctina response be a response to a known scumpartner? If not, the only way they're both scum is if lieb is traitor and arctina is pure mafia I'd like your thoughts here; I'm kinda neutral and can see it both ways AFAIK I'm the only player in that list that is seriously suspecting ddw right now, and I think everyone else leaned town on him (not too sure about yash actually). Even I am still not sure exactly where I place ddw rn, although I suspect that his next few posts will clear up my read on him. That being said, I'm not entirely sure what your point is here, the interaction seems pretty close to NAI to me. Can you explain what made you think this could be interpreted as unlikely for a w/w interaction? I think it's a good post to have brought up though. |
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Post by pkq on Jun 24, 2020 16:39:01 GMT
I am just going to say my peace about day 1 lynches. The people who lynch trem after me are Town reads for me. Everyone else is either null or scum reads. |
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Post by pkq on Jun 24, 2020 16:42:14 GMT
Also before I start quoting people I was like to say I am confirm town and I will try to explain the reason why to all of you.
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