Traitor vs Trackers: Game 2: Dogs [Game Thread; GG TOWN]

[litteleven]

Jun 20, 2020 17:20:33 GMT quojova said:

btw while I think about the star-ayia stuff was anyone actually impressed with joker's response at all? maybe I'm just not getting the "It could change later on but I think mafia could of kept their mouth shut easily.
Like they could of tried to gain plurality later on without revealing their plan."

could go the extra mile and say it's like traitor softing to scum, except its wrong in this instance; surprised nobody brought that thought up in the 4 pages over two lines 

[ayia]

Jun 20, 2020 17:12:07 GMT myo! said:

Jun 20, 2020 17:08:32 GMT quojova said:

I think this is a reasonable position, and I realize in my post I made it a bit unclear but I think saying that Litt's post is scummy as a maf trying to get towncred is fine, but saying that it's a maf trying to take the town down the wrong path makes no sense (which is a position you no longer hold, if I'm understanding you correctly).

That being said I'm still inclined to call a move with the intent to help town slightly town-leaning, although in the case of that post I'll agree that it's not by much. It didn't seem overtly town-cred grabbing to me in a game that started out will pretty low real activity. 

I have two questions for you:
1) what do I call you, I assume "star" is not what you want and I don't want to copy-paste the symbol every time
2) what are your primary goals d1 as town? do you focus your effort on trying to find one/two scum? do you trying to tighten poe with a solid towncore? do you focus on getting a day with plenty of info to refer to in future days? etc.

I was going to stay out of this ayia-star flamewar to see how it settles but I see I've just been called upon for my thoughts, I'll say something about it soon

what I stand on that view isn't that Litt was ever directly scum, but one of two possibilities

- Litt was scum trying to mislead town with less experience (e.g joker.)
- Litt was town who proposed a bad idea that would hurt town in the long run.

it's not even a bad idea tho
it just gives active town more mobility in lynches

[litteleven]

Jun 20, 2020 17:24:42 GMT litteleven said:

Lynch Forever Joker 

Might as well put them on the stand ps-mafia.proboards.com/user/1110 clearly a couple of people want actual analysis and not a random tr however sweet it sounds.

[myo!]

n e wayz
sorry for getting so overly heated
this is why i don't play mafia very much 👁👄👁

[quojova]

Jun 20, 2020 17:05:49 GMT ayia said:

quojova obviously the part of your readslist I disagreed with was the hard tr on "star" aka dragondriftway aka arc

curious to see if that still applies after this mess

After reading your interactions a few times and mulling it over, you might not like where my read stands. It is clear to me that dragondriftway was almost entirely responsible for the escalation of the situation, but that doesn't necessarily make him scum. One thing I will say is that in the moments he did escalate, like in...

"one thing I really don't like is Ayia completely disregarding my attempts to explain myself but who knows maybe he's just being stubborn.",
"note how you didn't respond to a single one of these lines

honey you're literally walking on a tightrope right now" and 
"so sorry babe but going out of your way to press on lines that aren't me explaining myself is just nonsensical, you're trying to dig them into the back and put focus on me for wording my posts wrong.



like shut the hell up. please. just. stop typing.



you're no longer making any sense and are just looking for reasons to pounce. while I'm not gonna cross because I'm hesitant to say tunnelling is really a scum move, but I'm going to kindly ask you to stop, take a deep breath, and read."

...it doesn't really feel like he needs to escalate to adequately respond. While I can see that being a point for him being maf, to me it seems like he's drawing attention unnecessary attention to himself that I personally would be a lot more cautious about if I were a maf in his position (This is the second time I've used the "too wolfy to be a wolf" argument so at this point I'm going to be a lot more cautious about opportunistic scum trying to use that to get a tr out of me). To me this reads like a t/t interaction. I say t on ayia's side too because throughout the conversation he was pretty reasonable, but the one thing I'd like to hear more about is the vote itself. It feels like a lot of your criticism could apply to a "disoriented townie" as well (which is how I'm reading this atm), so I'm curious about what made you confident you were dealing with a maf and not one of those. Like he's clearly disoriented and misunderstanding some things in some way, but how do you know that he is becoming that way as a maf and not a townie? I don't think my insight as a 3rd party townie in this argument is particularly significant over other 3rd party townies so I'd like to hear what other people have to say about it.

also can we talk about that joker thing

[qtball]

VOTE: SadisticNarwhal

[qtball]

brb

[ayia]

I don’t really agree with the “too wolfy to be wolf” read but I def understand where you’re coming from
But I just don’t see why town would have the reaction that Myo did at a simple read and lynch

but i’ll move on since you clearly want to talk about the Joker thing LOL lemme take a look

[quojova]

I don't see my activity-poke vote going anywhere so I'm going to add some pressure to this wagon and
vote foreverjoker

[ayia]

Jun 20, 2020 16:40:47 GMT foreverjoker said:

Well for starters its just a day 1 read.
It could change later on but I think mafia could of kept their mouth shut easily.
Like they could of tried to gain plurality later on without revealing their plan.
Litteleven could be mafia but right now I'm just guessing
You looked into a slight read too much tbh

I don’t really agree with this line of logic but it gives insight into his thought process and what he was thinking and i can kind of follow it? so i’m just gonna say this is town for now
quojova i’m assuming you disagree

[ayia]

Jun 20, 2020 18:45:06 GMT qtball said:

brb

tbz

[quojova]

Jun 20, 2020 18:58:11 GMT ayia said:

Jun 20, 2020 16:40:47 GMT foreverjoker said:

Well for starters its just a day 1 read.
It could change later on but I think mafia could of kept their mouth shut easily.
Like they could of tried to gain plurality later on without revealing their plan.
Litteleven could be mafia but right now I'm just guessing
You looked into a slight read too much tbh

I don’t really agree with this line of logic but it gives insight into his thought process and what he was thinking and i can kind of follow it? so i’m just gonna say this is town for now
quojova i’m assuming you disagree

I mean he had all this pressure piling on him at the point he posted this and these five lines don't do much to alleviate that for me. Lines 1, 4, and 5 basically amount to "it's just a day 1 read and I was just guessing, you shouldn't read into it that much," which is a fine point to make but doesn't resolve any of the tension from his initial post. Line 2's "It could change later on" is still basically saying "don't read into it too much" if I'm reading this correctly. "I think mafia could of kept their mouth shut easily" is finally a real point, but that point isn't much more than "Litt didn't lurk so he's not maf". There's obviously something about the post itself that made joker say it was towny, but he barely goes in-depth to try to tell us what that is here. 

If my interpretation is correct the 3rd line is just saying "a maf wouldn't reveal this plan to lead town's plur because they could have used it later on" as if the existence of the possibility of mafia leading plurality wagons is somehow a masterful and previously unknown plan that is completely shot by Litt's post. 

None of this makes sense to me, and the insistence that the post should be thrown out because it's "just a day 1 read" worries me the most. I'm also curious as to why this is suddenly a town read for you now. Maybe I could see this post making up for the previously awkward post and becoming an overall null read for you, but what have you seen from this post that makes you go "i’m just gonna say this is town for now"? It seems very premature. 

[sadisticnarwhal]

I got 2 on me for what? Also I'ma try to analyze whatever the star name person was saying since ya'll think that's a polarizing topic, maybe I'll check out the role list or something since apparently there's a traitor or something

[qtball]

i just didnt like your reaction @ sadwhal so I'm gonna sit here until I have time to read up, don't get feisty @ me thx c:

[qtball]

also ily ayia u better be town

[qtball]

gonna be at work for a minute so until then please post more so I have more to read !!!

[yashgreninja]

Hey all, sorry I've been stuck helping my family out with some COVID related stuff so this is my first post. I'll hopefully be posting more later just analyzing stuff that's been said so far and then I'll do my lynches. Sorry again for the inactivity!

[yashgreninja]

Jun 20, 2020 21:30:35 GMT yashgreninja said:

Hey all, sorry I've been stuck helping my family out with some COVID related stuff so this is my first post. I'll hopefully be posting more later just analyzing stuff that's been said so far and then I'll do my lynches. Sorry again for the inactivity!

I'll be replying as I go btw so if stuff in the beginning gets contradicted by stuff at the end, just factor the other messages / content that have happened before the respective quote and it'll be easier to understand.

[tremenon]

I promise i'm not lurking i'm just afraid to say anything

[quojova]

Jun 20, 2020 22:20:36 GMT tremenon said:

I promise i'm not lurking i'm just afraid to say anything

how about a reads list? it doesn't take a whole lot of inspiration to do one of those

[myo!]

Jun 20, 2020 18:46:34 GMT ayia said:

I don’t really agree with the “too wolfy to be wolf” read but I def understand where you’re coming from
But I just don’t see why town would have the reaction that Myo did at a simple read and lynch

but i’ll move on since you clearly want to talk about the Joker thing LOL lemme take a look

because you've never played a game with me

[myo!]

and I would bring up pmeta here

but because of what it actually is, if I said it it'd just make my case that much worse.

[myo!]

i also hate pmeta and the fact that my pmeta is always a topic of debate when it comes to me is obnoxious as hell

[yashgreninja]

Jun 20, 2020 4:24:33 GMT ayia said:

perched for yash to tunnel me all game

Bold of you to assume I'm stupid to do that. I still don't like you after what happened in EiMM but that doesn't and shouldn't be factored into bias/beliefs on anyone in the game.


Also I just typed a shit ton of stuff with over 20 quotes and responses/thoughts from my POV of how I see things, and I hit backspace once but wasn't in the text box so now I can't get any of it back b/c it sent me to the previous page visited before the reply section and I'm not gonna bother retyping everything b/c it took me a solid 30 minutes just to get past the first 3 pages with typing responses. Instead I'm just gonna give you a summary of what all I've read and what my reads are:

Ayia: Again, sad that you think I'd tunnel you in an NOC forum game but moving along. You've got good content and good reads but the argument you've had with Arc really seems like nothing. This goes for Arc as well. I purely think that you're either being smart with this (and I can see it and can only pray that scum doesn't), or you guys are just both good content Town bickering amongst each other because of y'alls choice of words. Overall verdict: TR for D1. Don't take this shit as me trying to make amends or cover my tracks. I still hate your fucking guts Ayia.

ZoL: I have no idea what you're doing but I realistically don't see much from you and especially considering you talked early, I just see it as an overcompensation for early town reads to make it easier to pick pocket off of others who haven't said much, if not anything at all. You proceeded to randlynch and then back off of it even though "Chad" had zero content and only agreed to Ayia because he apparently is "good" at mafia. Overall verdict: slight SR.

Lifesucc: I can't really say much and it's hard to talk about what you've said in the game so far. I do admit that the turbo thingy on you and the policy lynch by Litt that followed is a bit unfair, and SRing litt for that slightly (which I'll get to) makes me feel like you're most likely town? It's still hard to tell at this point in the game sooooo overall verdict: Null, leaning towards town but I need more to get a definitive opinion.

Litt: I liked the originality of your content, but after reading what others have said in regards to it, I feel like it could've easily been coerced so I can't really trust you on that. You're also being hella counter productive even if you did mean what you said because you also wanna policy lynch someone (I forgot who) purely bc they said "turbo"? Like that's almost harmless, it would only be harmful if it grew into a larger wagon but from what I see it isn't and hasn't. Overall verdict: slight SR, but a lot less of an SR in comparison to ZoL. At least you provided decent content.

quojova: My strongest TR so far purely because they're considering everything and every scenario possible which is what good town would do. They aren't taking sides, and they've provided really good analysis. This isn't me sucking them off either, it's just the truth. Nothing negative to say about them here, I even agreed with their substance reads in my previous typings before they proceeded to get erased from existence due to the tab back paging. Overall verdict: Strong TR

ForeverJoker: Call me out on this as your will but I feel like they're just noob town that got thrown into the crossfire of people taking their read way too seriously. I'm not excusing that behavior all the time but considering they're new, I'm not gonna step on them for it. However, foreverjoker I'd like you to add more content into your thoughts and reads because it makes us townies understand your thoughts and situation in the game. Thanks in advance. Overall verdict: Null.

Arc: I'm not gonna lie I didn't even know who you were until Ayia asked and you said it was you. Regardless, you've contributed a lot of good discussion that makes me think you're town along with Ayia in the same situation. The bickering and stuff is just really unnecessary and it's just over the choice of words. Not yelling at just you for it, but consider stepping away from that argument and finding someone else to pressure and talk to because Ayia is just occupying your words for no reason. Ayia if you're reading this I mean the same to you. To me, you both are town and should just stop arguing about it before someone innocent and helpful gets lynched/killed. Overall verdict: TR

PKQ: Call me a hypocrite but I still don't even like PKQ's early presence in this game. He hasn't done much (as havent I either which is why I'm trying to make up for it with this post) and hopefully they grow to have better reads? I still don't like the early game presence though. Overall verdict: slight SR, less than ZoL but more than Litt.

TBZ: I love you <3 Anyways getting back to the game, they haven't talked much but they've talked more than others who haven't even checked the thread yet so that's a plus I can give to both him and PKQ b/c I forgot to mention it above. The randlynch on SadisticNarwhal is fine too because again it's random and d1 typically has RVS' so I don't know why that's really an issue. Overall verdict: TR, but not as much as quojava. This is a small TR that is smaller than most TRs I have so far in the game but it exists because there's been no bad intentions. Hopefully you don't bite me in the ass later, TBZ.

SadisticNarwhal: You're overcompensating two randlynches in an NOC game and you're heavily concerned about it as if you're getting lynched from a 2 wagon. The post where you also talked about how you didn't know there was a traitor also could possibly be coerced and I'm not entirely sure I can trust you and your content with that kind of view I've got on you. Overall verdict: slight SR, close to my SR levels on ZoL but more than PKQ and Litt.


Hopefully that answers a lot of people and hopefully you guys can understand my thoughts. This post is in no way attacking people. It's purely just what I've seen so far in the game.

I'll be posting my lynch along with my reasons soon. If you wanna talk on here, let me know and I'll be glad to talk about the game in the thread.

[chad]

I did not realize this game had started, thought it started today.