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Post by cyan on Jul 11, 2022 10:13:36 GMT
Snapa: Kind of like zach but a little more null. Perhaps I don’t like you because of how much you annoyed me when I subbed in and I had to read 6 pages of you and spore jcking each other off talking about balls. Rating 1 mandatory "i found this funny" start for my wallposts My Mindset
I am currently displeased with the current game state. The ratio between the active and inactive is too close. There hasn't been much difference in activity since Day 1. I do not appreciate attempting to solve the game where almost half the PL are borderline inactive. And with that Its Hindered my resolve and I came up with a plan of action. I do not necessarily care if active scum players continue to live on since we can always prove it later on. What I think is the scariest possibility is the existence of inactive scum because we don't know if their lurking is strategic or nor we will be able to prove they are scum and since there is a good amount of inactive players I am very concern. I think it's better to take a chance on them now than later in the game. We have an active pool of players that can have a Mafia team of 4 and we also have a lurker party with a Mafia team of 4. As with the Active Party, there is always a chance to prove someone is guilty but with the lurker party, we cannot. So I think its best if we can at least take a chance in the lurker party. Basically, I think it's better to pursue peace of mind with these slots. In ConclusionThis may not be optimal but It's the path Town should consider. My Theory is that Mafia Would most likely kill active players making that pool smaller and If Town can target the lurker pool it would help prevent any imbalance between the Active and Non-Active. I do not think it is wise to shorten the number of active players at this time and as long there is a possibility of a 4-mafia - Lurker Team. I will want to shorten the Number of lurkers for peace of mind. I will likely keep this mindset as long as the number of lurkers equals to the number of Alive Mafia players.  Kliff this doesn’t do anything. It just rehashes that you think there is scum in lurkers. > “my theory is that mafia will kill active players” They killed a guy who posted literally like 10 words. Misdirection into making town think that there is less scum in the lurker pool? Scum trying to pr hunt? You tell me. looking at the votecounts, kliff has targeted martinvtran since early Day 2. next step should be to figure out how this is meant to be interpreted given kliff's comments about their voting plan i think the big problem with kliff's plan has nothing to do with the line of thought presented, but with the context behind it i made a throw-away note on how kliff and snapa have both been suggesting that we should fish out scum from the lurker pool, and mentioned that scum is either comfortable with or aiming to keep the active PL as it is given the last two kills. kliff going the extra mile to present a case for lurkerthinning fits with this agenda, and the "mafia will kill active players" bit also alludes to that. tl;dr, kliff fits neatly into (at least, my image of) whatever scum agenda appears to be at play here definitely an angle to revisit if things go wrong. I am getting a feeling that Spore is trying to blend in with the Inactiveness, potentially trying to go under the radar. What do you make of this spore you don't make a point against someone and ask them to review it, you make a point and bring it up to other people but i'm going to say that spore straight up has not made a read for three IRL days. on rereading the thread, two things come to note: - ohsnapa is working with the idea that spore is active I've already cased Shadow, I'll try to pull up that case if you want me to, but for now, the list of current active players are: mmib, cyan, spore, zach, me, kliff (chaos died they arent included) 6 active players - zach views spore's inaction and coasting as town-indicative Fourth off is spore. Really don't have much to say about you. Just wanna see some more outta you. You've been coasting but not necessarily in a bad or alarming way. Town lean for now. I'm still inclined to believe that it's Sylveon + Cyan. Sylveon's claim sounds like bullshit Cyan has been careful around them. They kind of refused to vote Sylveon, but, this is only what I can remember from my deep read. I'll try to remember why I had this read in the first place, and try to look for why I thought cyan is careful around sylveon, as if trying to preserve them. am i wrong for not wanting to instantly doubt a cop claim even if it looks like ass in retrospect |
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Post by cyan on Jul 11, 2022 3:07:36 GMT
Now onto the reads that I said I would share. I'm also going to try and answer some of the questions I posed in this post as well.
First off, kliff. What are you doing? I appreciate what little you've contributed thus far (especially the card graphic yesterday), but we need more out of. Like I said, activity is very telling. We need more out of you. Not solely reads either, but anything that could help unify the active players in a single direction. In addition, despite no one town reading or leaning you at this point in the game, you've still maintained your composure. I respect that, but it makes me wanna keep an eye on you.
i'm going to blatantly steal this read because you make a great point about kliff's lack of emotional distress
Second off is mmib. If you are town, then I am disappointed in your performance these past two days. You spent so much time and effort trying to convince town that not only you are in fact still town, but that chaos is scum (I implore everyone to read what I said about mmib on page 15 because he only proved my points in d2). We see how that has backfired. The apology was a nice gesture, but I need to see action. Some people here tr you, I don't quite yet. Do better, and I'll believe you in alignment.
i feel like it's worth pointing out that mmib's play quality hasn't always been the passive one-step-behind style for the whole game. i felt like they were actively making attempts to solve d1, and stopped somewhere along the line (probably the hospital thing)
i advise against expecting mmib to pick up the pace. convalescence is a shitty time
Third off is cyan. I greatly appreciate the efforts you've made to progress the game forward, but I can't quite make heads or tails of what your alignment is. One moment, you'll be leading town in the right direction, but the next you'll go down a train of thought that either seems uncharacteristically emotional, saying the same thing you've already said, arguing with snap (creating a svt situation between you two), or actively trying to kill of people contributing with valuable information (chaos). If we didn't have inactive players or sylv, then I'd want to pressure you, but that will have to wait for another day. Null/FOS on you, but we can wait until later in the game to actually explore this.
i feel like your thoughts on chaos should've been brought to my attention more. i still stand by my reasons for voting them; their game plan of targeting lurkers, their complaints about the alleged lack of content d1, and what i interpreted as their attempt to halt discussion by directing attention away from the active pool rubbed me off the wrong way
i should take this time to ask, what valuable information was chaos bringing to the table?
Fourth off is spore. Really don't have much to say about you. Just wanna see some more outta you. You've been coasting but not necessarily in a bad or alarming way. Town lean for now.
Finally is snapa. If you aren't town, then you got me, cause you've made a convincing effort to try and solve this game. I don't think scum would do that, especially when they have a bevy of inactive players to use to their advantage. Don't mess up, and I'll continue along with your ideas that you've been somewhat throwing out today. By the way, I want to hear everything you have to say. Don't hide anything.
Everyone else might as well be dead to me cause they haven't done shit.
i suppose it's worth mentioning also that kliff, chaos and snapa have at some point in this game wanted to pursue the afk pool over the active pool. i'm not going to call that a scumtell, necessarily, but it is a common game plan among three players who don't seem to have much in the way of direct interactions and that might be worth paying attention to |
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Post by cyan on Jul 11, 2022 2:50:22 GMT
the game's just barfed at this point anything i could point out is going to fall on almost universally deaf ears like if i had to fucking make a guess then it'd be that at least one of the active pool of players (excluding sylveon) is scum but we wasted our second day and no one seems to be willing to start enough conversation to make use of a third why the pessimism. this post gives scummy vibes from the defeatist mindset because i've mostly given up, that's about it but thanks for the wallpost because we've got things to work with now First and foremost, we have 6 active players: kliff, mmib, cyan, spore, snap, and myself. That leaves 6 inactive shitters and they are as follows: dewfew, martinvtran, shadow, litteleven, sylv & angel. I'm gonna ignore the fact that we voted one of them out yesterday and move on with life. Unless they speak up, sylv is as good as dead, and the count swings 6 actives to 5 afks. Depending on who scum kills (barring rb mega read), it could either go to 5 to 5 or 6 to 4. These, while not god fucking awful odds, are still not great odds for us to win.
it's 4v8 right now. say we kill sylv and they flip town; 4v7 drops to a 4v6, mandating a no-vote unless someone mechanically solves the game, and we'd be at a 4v5 with at least one of the active players being scum. even if we assume that scum kills inactives only, we'd be stuck in a situation where 3 out of 9 players are inactive in a VOLO, and i'm not so sure if we can brute force our way out of that without throwing away our individual reads.
this also means that, if scum has an active majority, the game's as good as over
if we assume instead that sylv flips mafia, 3v8 is slightly more tolerable. the only scenario in which our odds aren't dogshit is if we get maf!sylv out
Right now we need to figure out a systematic way of solving the problem with the afk players. Despite me SR’ing cyan, I think it’s best that we develop a better plan Unfortunately, this is probably the best coures of action. I think there are some scum amongst the active player pool, but we as a town don't currently have the privilege of viewing everyone in the game through the lens of scum or town. Activity (now more than ever) has meaning, and any amount of it can be incredibly useful to us. Let's start with everything else snapa has said today. I’ll wait until I can discuss my solve much more thoroughly. But for now I think everybody active needs to be even more involved. I agree with the messages after this about being able to fuse our combined knowledge and actually get somewhere in the game, but that requires the information of A LOT of people. I will share my information at the end of this or in a subsequent, but I think it's optimist that everyone will share theirs in a similar manner. mmib and kilff have already posted and they've said basically nothing with their posts. Perhaps it could be in town's best interest to make people conform to share information, however, without the consequence of getting voted out, I'm not sure the best way to go about this. I will say, this message seems kinda ominous?? Not super sure of the right word, but I don't think we have the luxury of playing with our words as town. You've been fairly aggressive all game. What're you hiding behind these words? i'm a little unclear as to what argument you're making here. are you casing snap for being too optimistic, or are you asking them to develop a more complex plan?
also,
is a bit of a non-sequiturAs far as I know this is a 4v8 right now. I'm going to assume these 4 are me, snap, mmib, spore? Why those 4 in particular? Do you have information on kliff and cyan (other than your SR on cyan) that you would like to share in order to make the rest of your list see things the way you do? 4v8 means 4 scum v. 8 town. Now onto Sylveon and the plan moving forward. I like your train of thought with sylv claiming role cop vs. roleblock. Here's my thought process behind it. Sylveon had to have realized that there were a decent amount of players amongst the pool that didn't contribute day 1 and of those that did, there was a lot of inequity amongst the levels of participation. With there already being suspicion on sylveon and their panicky nature, perhaps they thought it best to aggressively claim role cop in an effort to try and out the real role cop with a cc in order to take another power role down, massively swinging the tide of the game into scum's favor as town would only have roleblocker left. This obviously didn't work when there wasn't a cc, hence sylv not dying at night and instead an afk shitter dying instead. Claiming roleblock would've increased sylv's survivability, but I don't think they cared about that the moment claiming role cop popped in their head. Sylv wanted another power role down after they got pac killed day 1. This, however, raises another series of questions. Why did scum kill sky, and how valuable is the afk pool to scum? In addition, what does the existance of an afk pool mean for mafia, and what plans can be made around that? I'd like to discuss these questions as I don't really have all the answers to them myself at this current moment. there is a pettier alternative explanation; cops have more town authority than roleblockers most of the time, and maf!sylv went for a cop claim because he thought it would get town to panic off of him more. i digress; role cop outing is the most sensible motive for fakeclaiming role cop as scum
but let's talk about the afk pool for a moment. our information is that scum shot within the afk pool, and scum has 4 members; we should probably assume from here on out that scum is comfortable with keeping the actives alive. maybe scum thinks the PRs are in the afk pool, maybe scum has a hidden majority in the active PL, or maybe a bulk of the scumteam is in the afk pool and their carrier doesn't want to call attention to them. i'll need time to narrow down these possibilities, unfortunately
the thing is, the afk pool is large enough that even if scum kills afk in every upcoming night, there's always at least one to function as a scapegoat killer. part of me thinks that scum is aiming to nudge the entire pl into focusing on one or two slots in the endgameNow the problems with all of this. First, I mean, mafia does have a really great chance to leave Sylveon alive I meant really great reason. +, by really great reason, I mean REALLY REALLY GREAT, because look at what’s happening now, sylveon has 4 votes if I counted correctly.I couldn't agree more. If role cop is actually potatotown and/or inactive, then scum just takes advantage of this by either letting town kill them or by mafia roleblocking them until mafia roleblock is dead, rendering our role cop unless (more unless than they already are to us). Second, our plan moving forward relies HEAVILY on sylveon's alignment. Regardless of all the scummy lines by sylv out there and the reason why I don't think the real cop has cced, we still need to take what sylv has said at face value until either sylv says more or until there is a cc. That is why I will be holding out my vote to give sylv another chance to speak. If they don't speak, I vote, and they die. Their vote count will be at 5, and mafia will either all have to rally and kill someone else, revealing their identities in the process, or some crazy new developments will have to be made. If they speak, we go from there. Can't really plan for what happens after sylv speaks. responses in cyan. i have no objection to the counters; i kind of felt like they were common sense Kinda surprised I survived d2 lol. Felt like everyone was suspicious of me. Also, damn I have a lot to read. 26 pages?!?! inspects first, reads later also, the cyan bit of this post rubs me off as something that'll come into play later if sylv flips |
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Post by cyan on Jul 10, 2022 15:07:33 GMT
i have a big problem with this post you used the word lovely there is nothing lovely about this i didnt know cyan can shitpost like this the game's just barfed at this point anything i could point out is going to fall on almost universally deaf ears like if i had to fucking make a guess then it'd be that at least one of the active pool of players (excluding sylveon) is scum but we wasted our second day and no one seems to be willing to start enough conversation to make use of a third |
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Post by cyan on Jul 10, 2022 13:12:55 GMT
hey, so its day 3 and our lovely cop who has done nothing at all hasnt died which basically confirms them as scum vote sylveoni have a big problem with this post you used the word lovely there is nothing lovely about this |
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Post by cyan on Jul 10, 2022 11:00:24 GMT
edits are illegal you piss
but also, the fact that sylv isn't dead and that ohsnapa is pursuing him actively tells me that sylv v. snap is decidedly svt
Vote: Sylveon & Rando
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Post by cyan on Jul 10, 2022 6:11:49 GMT
not at home rn, will make a full response later
my reasons tie into chaos's extremely passive play in both d1 and d2 and their subsequent attempts to justify said playstyle (i.e. "we don't have enough to work off of so you shouldn't be pushing people") and also push low-activity slots in the name of "playing the game"
tl;dr chaos appeared to be aggressively disinterested in scumhunting
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Post by cyan on Jul 9, 2022 2:09:57 GMT
less complaining, more pushing. you're on shadoweavile of all people, ffs. I'm on shadow because he's one of the two people who are both inactive and we have some info on him. I, too, found his reads to be random and weird d1, but felt it unnecessary when pressing sylv and pac was more relevant. Now that that has resolved itself. I wanna hear more from them now and see if the weird reads continue. i'll file your attempt under "well-intentioned misplays" because i don't think we're going to get much out of a slot that won't talk we've got 20 minutes and i, particularly, want to see your take on mmib and kliff because i don't know how to read both of them |
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Post by cyan on Jul 9, 2022 2:08:10 GMT
you did in fact explain your read, and i responded well, let me rephrase, i town lean them because their reads are legit there, and they pop up casually, and those reads actually make sense to me. But i don't see the build up leading to their read, for example, someone would say something, and chaos will reply with their reads on the situation you dont see chaos going "i think *full on blown read here*" you seem them go *person says some shit* *chaos replies* "yes i think *read here*" this is an... interesting take, to say the least while i do see that chaos isn't very committed to explaining their reads and i understand where you're getting from when you say that these reads do exist, i still feel like this kind of play presents a new problem namely, that chaos's play looks to be somewhat on the back foot. whatever reads that exist are just brought up in passing, with no real length of elaboration, and to me it makes the reads come across as shallow and not fleshed out this is why communication is a big deal in mafia in general, because we'll never know how much thought was put into chaos's supposed reads without them going the extra mile to over-explain them. especially because faking reads isn't super-hard and it's a theoretical tell that someone who puts out a large amount of superficial reads is probably not reading for the sake of scumhunting why would we need to pressure chaos when we can just ask them for their reads. they've been giving reads, just not actively doing it, im fairly sure they have a document somewhere or some shit where they keep all of their reads because it doesn't feel like chaos is doing anything. granted, most of us are kind of just sitting here, but it stands out to me that chaos isn't the type to move without being nudged that's a sign of coasting but i think the answer you're going to need more is that pressuring isn't a means of getting reads, it's a means of getting reactions and reading off of them when i ask you to explain something i'm not just asking for your input. i'm judging your thought process and working out if your intentions appear to be scum-aligned or town-aligned |
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Post by cyan on Jul 9, 2022 2:05:59 GMT
cyan explain your inconsistencies d1 and your unnatural belief in sylveon despite sylveon because obviously scummy mind elaborating a bit more on the inconsistencies bit? also i'm not going to push sylveon until i have significant reason to doubt their claim, because. well they fucking claimed role cop if we miss on this one we're megafucked and sylveon straight up disappearing from the face of the earth does not make this any more helpful |
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Post by cyan on Jul 9, 2022 2:03:45 GMT
the majority of Day 2 has been ohsnapa posting random thoughts like the motherfucker is playing on Discord and it's quite aggravating This is gonna be fun to read 😐 i mean the tldr is just: chaos isnt scummy spore literally read your entire case and got the exact opposite impression of chaos and i find that more hilarious than tragic you should probably reexamine your read on chaos because all it boils down to is "they have reads that they're not explaining" which is by no means townie weren't you saying that spore was being careful with their words before shadow even posted i think im starting to see it again, but i think the thing is that i confused "careful" with "being raw" i was reading spore's lines and i could see why i would have thought that spore is being careful. example line: *********spore is replying to this post********* MMIB SAYS: "cyan i have no idea how to use forums, and it seems sl is just the sl of sl. anyway spore care to explain why u have just continued glazing over sylv?"
*********This is spore's reply*********
SPORE SAYS: "listen mem if u want me to engage in a completely scripted and totally fake conversation with sylv rn then sure
but idk what u want me to say to them seeing as they hardly engage in conversation like you snapa or even erry
also cyan sorry for disappointing you but it is what it is"
If you glance at this line without reading it you would feel like spore is being careful here. Take a look at this portion of the line: "listen mem if u want me to engage in a completely scripted and totally fake conversation with sylv rn then sure"This part of the line gives you vibes that spore is trying to be careful. Look at the part where spore says " listen mem". Why say " listen mem" when they could have just said a more straight forward and much more confident approach like, removing the "listen mem" part as a whole? Take a look at the ending part, why say " then sure"? When you could have said a more confident ending statement, like for example, the first line can be reworded as:
"Do you want me to engage with an absolutely fake and scripted conversation with Sylv?"
Or something along those lines.
But the main takeaway here isn't the first line, nor the second line, but the whole line as a whole. The whole line is a raw reply to Mem, which at first glance or a quick glance, can be seen as a careful reply. Which was why I probably said Spore was being careful with his words. This can be seen on other lines too. Tldr: i made quick glances of spore lines without actually reading them fully, making the mistake of thinking of them as fake lines instead of raw lines so now that you've done all that revising, what do you think of spore? im still inclined to voting cyan here i would vote shadow here at first priority, but the reason im voting cyan is because we need to see more from shadow, we cant just vote them out because of one reason if the reason you're voting me has less to do with me and more to do with someone who isn't interacting with me i can only conclude you're using a vote to just kill me off potential SvS on ohsnapa/chaostrodon chaostradon ik ive been pretty aggressive w my read on u but u got anything else man? lowkey i can be swayed here. i also like how kliff is considering other options/going far out, he seems to acknowledge what is currently going on and the active people but is trying to prepare for the future. only problem is its essentially a dice roll if any of the lurkers are scum. other than my obvious sr of chaos, i sl spore asw. im essentially null on all the afks because they posted once or less and dipped. might have to read up and post on em later... still tr zach and tl snapa, cyan is kinda null but they seem more townie than scummy null wise finding it weird that you're making an unorganized and basic read wall, but i appreciate the effort? i do think your analysis of kliff is a sensible one, though. what i'm not sure is what alignment it makes them this game went to shit the moment we noticed half the PL never made it Well this has been productive. Even less people have decided to be active since we said hey let’s pressure the inactive people less complaining, more pushing. you're on shadoweavile of all people, ffs. |
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Post by cyan on Jul 9, 2022 1:53:05 GMT
i'm trying to read up but kliff and snap have derpy naruto pfp's and it's getting hard to tell the difference between the two of them
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 10:15:04 GMT
at this rate, it would probably just be best to start pressuring people to talk more by collectively putting us active people's votes on them and get them to talk. who to start with? and i should get back to this, because pressuring someone who doesn't appear to be playing the game at all is simply going to waste the entire day phase if boards don't hit back, corpses don't speak i'd be happy to push someone who was sitting in the sidelines, like, say, angel or shadow judging by their d1s, but they have yet to respond today the only other candidate that matches my criteria for a productive pressure target is the one who's most resistant to pressure, i.e. sylveon |
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 10:08:52 GMT
if we're going to pressure someone it better be someone we can pull some useful information out of, which is why i'm on chaos rn i've been racking my head over how to respond to this for a while and i still don't like what it's asking us to do are we going to sidestep sylv v. snap, snap v. cyan, and discussion around the semi-active players here? you seem to be fond of this idea that people should be given space, and while i respect the show of sportsmanship, we need things to work off of. if the game is as barren as you say, then why not find some small thing to latch onto and discuss with us? and you electing not to, at the very least, look at the pac wagon or the erry kill, seems to tell me that you don't have much intention to investigate the game and are trying to argue that that sort of passivity is fine it's not like any of this is new. chaos has been on their back foot for basically the entire game, having adopted a more responsive approach than a proactive one. i'm not going to give this slot space and i expect it not to give the rest of us any either tl;dr chaos needs to start getting their shit together and i'm going to sit on this vote until something happens why would we need to pressure chaos when we can just ask them for their reads. they've been giving reads, just not actively doing it, im fairly sure they have a document somewhere or some shit where they keep all of their reads because it doesn't feel like chaos is doing anything. granted, most of us are kind of just sitting here, but it stands out to me that chaos isn't the type to move without being nudged that's a sign of coasting but i think the answer you're going to need more is that pressuring isn't a means of getting reads, it's a means of getting reactions and reading off of them when i ask you to explain something i'm not just asking for your input. i'm judging your thought process and working out if your intentions appear to be scum-aligned or town-aligned |
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 10:05:24 GMT
well, let me rephrase, i town lean them because their reads are legit there, and they pop up casually, and those reads actually make sense to me. But i don't see the build up leading to their read, for example, someone would say something, and chaos will reply with their reads on the situation you dont see chaos going "i think *full on blown read here*" you seem them go *person says some shit* *chaos replies* "yes i think *read here*" this is an... interesting take, to say the least while i do see that chaos isn't very committed to explaining their reads and i understand where you're getting from when you say that these reads do exist, i still feel like this kind of play presents a new problem namely, that chaos's play looks to be somewhat on the back foot. whatever reads that exist are just brought up in passing, with no real length of elaboration, and to me it makes the reads come across as shallow and not fleshed out this is why communication is a big deal in mafia in general, because we'll never know how much thought was put into chaos's supposed reads without them going the extra mile to over-explain them. especially because faking reads isn't super-hard and it's a theoretical tell that someone who puts out a large amount of superficial reads is probably not reading for the sake of scumhunting |
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 4:54:15 GMT
also sorry i havent been as active guys, i had to go to the hospital today and my head feels like shit. it doesnt help being on the computer. ill see if i can reply/post a shit ton of stuff tomorrow, but for now im completely fucking out of it. good night i think you can PM the host and request a temporary Leave of Absence (LoA) where you can basically continue being in the game without having to meet strict activity deadlines or any of that shit? or at least that's something they let you do in mafiascum ideally you take some rest, recover mentally and only when you're ready should you be reading back on the game |
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 3:55:39 GMT
at the very least they can start with questions like "how scum-motivated do you think the pac wagon was" and direct them onto some of the subs? but then again by making this one post i've already done that job
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 3:54:40 GMT
if we're going to pressure someone it better be someone we can pull some useful information out of, which is why i'm on chaos rn i've been racking my head over how to respond to this for a while and i still don't like what it's asking us to do a good chunk of the remaining 2/3 were able to have a very passionate and productive discussion in the first day, where there was exactly no info to go off of. saying that there's nothing right now when people were shooting out blocks of text literally two days ago is just being disingenuous, and acting like there's nothing you can do is at best a show of ignorance and at worst a poor attempt to disengage yourself from the game. you're not trying to progress the game in any meaningful way. please read back on pages 10-15 and give us some thoughts on, at the very least, the sylv v. pac dynamic and how its advocates on each side made their points. did anyone seem like they were leading the wagon for a free kill? was there anyone refused to give anything that wasn't regurgitated by someone else already? one fierce wagon contest and a few flips should be enough information to at least start talking. what part of it was expected? like if you had a nagging feeling sylv was PR then you clearly took something out of D1. please tell me you fished out more opinions along with it except for point 1, none of these are counterpoints. they're excuses. then again, they give legitimacy to erry's post about you being potatotown Unvote: Sylveon & Rando
Vote: Chaostrodon
Your idea of progressing the game seems to be hyper-focusing on one person , not realizing how it is shutting down other info , you did it with sylv d1 and will probably do it with me now.
Seriously , give people some breathing space.
I stick by what I said , there is absolutely not enough info to go on , and if you are gonna spend the rest of today asking me the same questions over and over again , d3 is gonna suck as well.
Yeah , I had a feeling that sylv could be PR , which is why I sorta tried to get him to calm down yesterday. But I sincerely hope he is lying
are we going to sidestep sylv v. snap, snap v. cyan, and discussion around the semi-active players here? you seem to be fond of this idea that people should be given space, and while i respect the show of sportsmanship, we need things to work off of. if the game is as barren as you say, then why not find some small thing to latch onto and discuss with us? and you electing not to, at the very least, look at the pac wagon or the erry kill, seems to tell me that you don't have much intention to investigate the game and are trying to argue that that sort of passivity is fine it's not like any of this is new. chaos has been on their back foot for basically the entire game, having adopted a more responsive approach than a proactive one. i'm not going to give this slot space and i expect it not to give the rest of us any either tl;dr chaos needs to start getting their shit together and i'm going to sit on this vote until something happens |
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 2:51:38 GMT
but i guess i do need to mention for posterity that i mixed up "inspecting townleads as cop" as "inspecting townreads as cop"
mb
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Post by cyan on Jul 8, 2022 2:47:27 GMT
responses in cyan, once again
i.e. if sylv was panicky scum then he and his partners would probably pursue a counterwagon (in this case, pac) without making the effort seem like a team-coordinated one
also would be nice if you explained in more detail how steady salvaging seems less like PR play than panicking
Its not about teammates supporting openly , its more of a mindset thing , getting more and more panicky made me think he was drowning by himself. Its more the other way around , panicking felt more like PR play than steady salvaging (in this case) coz well the reason I stated above
>> if the townleader was mafia, having the inspect would essentially be insurance against them surviving and leading the town into its own demise uncontested
I wouldnt call erry a townleader
>> also if we're talking personal townreads, then the mafia nk argument straight-up doesn't work. this only applies to universally acknowledged townreads, with the condition that said unitr's aren't the Village Idiot
We are talking uni trs arent we? If we are talking personal townreads then your initial idea of mafia leading town into demise as a townleader is contradictory , coz you need to be a unitr to be a townleader
maybe i should just merge my responses into a single paragraph because from my pov you made two assertions and i wanted to entertain them separately inspecting a universal townread or a townleader (neither are mutually inclusive. you can be a leading player even without being a unitr if you're persuasive enough) is the preferred play for any town investigator, as it decreases the chances of a scum player townleading or being in a position of power in the later stages of the game. however, it is worth considering that if the uni-tr/townleader is a town player, it makes them an optimal scum nightkill target. you also asserted that, i quote verbatim, if we're talking about universal townreads, then saying that they're "most likely town" is honestly kind of poor if we're talking about personal townreads, then saying that "the chance of mafia nking them is higher" is also poor literally where is the activity. How many scum do you think are in your Non-active pool? i wasn't making reads. i was complaining. for what it's worth i think that the erry kill is a conscious decision; a team of primarily lurking scum would probably have shot someone more active literally one page ago you were talking about sylv being a role cop themselves, so it feels weird to me that you would've gone 180 this fast i'm not denying that the cop claim is sus, but if we don't get a cc then rushing with the read is just a Bad Idea if you think that being cautious here makes me scummy, then i will die on this hill. better than killing off another pr because they didn't play like town Unless maybe They are actually the cop.  What good will ccing now do anyways if there was one. i literally have no clue what you are trying to say with this post but if you're asking me what good cc'ing would do, well... fair enough. role cop cc's might come later in the game when the scumvote is fully necessary do you, kliff, have any opinions on sylv's cop claim and how other players are responding to it? would like to hear them |
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Post by cyan on Jul 7, 2022 14:45:58 GMT
What made you think that sylv could be PR? Well , he was clearly sweating and desperate , granted that could happen for both scum and PR but the way it kept getting worse made me think he didnt have any teammates and therefore PR. Compare that to pac's behaviour , who seemed to be putting in a steady effort to salvage themselves going to prod into this further. why did sylv's panicky behaviour suggest to you that he didn't have any teammates? i think a decent number of people were on the wagon he was advocating for, and i'd think partners are rarely blatant in how they support each other.
i.e. if sylv was panicky scum then he and his partners would probably pursue a counterwagon (in this case, pac) without making the effort seem like a team-coordinated one
also would be nice if you explained in more detail how steady salvaging seems less like PR play than panickingim still gonna vote cyan i dont give a shit he's scum vote cyan Do you think he is scum , or do you think he is the scummiest out of mmib , sylv , zach , me and spore just putting it out there, inspecting a townread (especially a universal one, which i don't think erry is) is a common play as cop because it snuffs out the potential for scum to townlead in a game +1 for questioning a PR claim, but you also need to have some form of grounds for it because so far sylv is uncc'ed and we might as well take their word as truth Inspecting a townlead is good play , inspecting a townread is not i revisited the mafiascum article that talked about cop inspect meta and honestly, this is it
although i kinda implied it in that same exact post fsr idk why i conflated townreads with townleads Not only is a townread most likely going to be well , a town member , there is also the fact that the chance of mafia nking them is higher.
if the townleader was mafia, having the inspect would essentially be insurance against them surviving and leading the town into its own demise uncontested
also if we're talking personal townreads, then the mafia nk argument straight-up doesn't work. this only applies to universally acknowledged townreads, with the condition that said unitr's aren't the Village Idiotresponses in cyan, once again |
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Post by cyan on Jul 7, 2022 14:36:36 GMT
i mean the logic is there but why would a rolecop rolecop their own townread instead of already copping who they think is scum wouldnt copping your scum read only advance your reads even further because it potentially removes a person from the list of potential scum and allows you to formulate even better reads in the future? im fairly sure that what makes a person townie is their consistency, if you tr and a person and they drastically change in their tone and style of playing the game, i'm fairly sure anybody who tr's that person will question themselves and remove that person from the list of potential towns. copping a scumread advances your reads, but often at the cost of town's collective conscience remember that a cop kind of has a job to clear the names of townies towards the middlegame or endgame (if they make it there somehow), having that conf be on someone competent goes a long way then again that only matters so long as the cop intends to stay hidden until later, which does not apply here also, consistency is one of many metrics that determine how townie a player is. others include activity, read quality, persuasiveness, etc. tldr: i call sylveon's cop claim bullshit, cyan is prolly acting like a dumbass pretending that they're not scum when they're actually just scum partners, in the off chance that sylveon isnt cop we'll just turbo em then into cyan if sylveon isnt the real rolecop, i dont know what this means for erry YET, but im fairly sure a scum player wouldnt say publicly that they inspected their own partner. In any case, Erry and sylveon are severely not aligned literally one page ago you were talking about sylv being a role cop themselves, so it feels weird to me that you would've gone 180 this fast i'm not denying that the cop claim is sus, but if we don't get a cc then rushing with the read is just a Bad Idea if you think that being cautious here makes me scummy, then i will die on this hill. better than killing off another pr because they didn't play like town " Do you think he is scum , or do you think he is the scummiest out of mmib , sylv , zach , me and spore" i think he's scum on the other hand though, i still think mmib and zach are townie spore is null, probably nearing scummy if he continues to act careful with his words sylv is uhhhhh, yeah im just kinda waiting for a cc on sylv, if sylv is cop then i'll just turbo cyan anyway also i kinda think that you're town, i already explained this, but you gotta be more active man, like, i notice you're being careful, i dont think careful is the right word, it's uhhhhhhhhhhhh, secretive, yeah, you're being secretive with your reads gonna be honest here, chief. this answer explains every single read but mine |
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Post by cyan on Jul 7, 2022 13:07:30 GMT
literally where is the activity.
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Post by cyan on Jul 7, 2022 9:02:56 GMT
bruh sylveon is the role cop dude why the fuck is sylveon the cop -1 for these reactions because they sound like high school drama screenwriting |
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Post by cyan on Jul 7, 2022 9:01:59 GMT
I copped erry, but they died the same night so it doesn't matter as much. Very interesting. Convenient as well. Why did you investigate them? What alignment did you think erry was before investigating them?
All of what I'm saying in this post goes under the assumption that sylv is truthful in their cop claim.
I can't seem to figure out why someone who very much defended you as being apart of town (despite them also calling you bad town) would warrant getting investigated. If erry was mafia, then it makes zero sense for them to go to such lengths to defend someone of the opposite alignment. If erry was town, then absolutely nothing was gained as what was seemingly obvious (to you presumably) was confirmed. If you are being defended by someone, then it doesn't make sense to me why they should then be investigated when there are 14 other people, especially those who wanted you to get voted out, who could've been investigated. And if you thought erry was town and wanted to figure out if they were a pr or not, then that seems like a waste of an investigation as the odds of finding a PR amongst town (2/11) are worse than finding a mafia amongst everyone else (4/15).
Also why claim cop when the bodyguard is dead. It doesn't matter if it's your last defense or not. You're either going to get voted out by town today or killed by mafia next night. I also don't expect a counterclaim for this very reason.
just putting it out there, inspecting a townread (especially a universal one, which i don't think erry is) is a common play as cop because it snuffs out the potential for scum to townlead in a game +1 for questioning a PR claim, but you also need to have some form of grounds for it because so far sylv is uncc'ed and we might as well take their word as truth i think i can sum it up pretty quickly: i called them out for trying really hard to alignment with town and saying other weird stuff like talking about prs (at least I found that weird). cyan then said, "thank fuck someone put it in words". other stuff was said. pac doubled down. then people voted for them, two of which were cyan and I, two of which are people that others have scum read, and one is dead.
take all of that as you will. it sucks that the bodyguard is dead. in hindsight, it makes sense what pac was trying to do. they just wanted a quick way to figure out who some of town was so they knew who to protect. assuming a big group of people as town gives you a pool to bodyguard for the entire game. in addition, associating yourself with that group then clears yourself as town. it'd be a win-win. they just went about doing this in a really poor way.
the reason why i didnt think they were scum in the first place was exactly because of this. if they were scum trying to find out the pr members then they wouldnt have done the thing they did openly, specifically the word "openly", which was "trying really hard to alignment with town and saying other weird stuff like talking about prs", since it would be too risky for their own sake obviously this backfired in this case then at least one scum was on that wagon, sylveon claimed rolecop, apparently, i dont fucking know, and i still have cases stacked on cyan, idk if chaos voted pac but chaos needs to start participating more on town instead of making reads on their own and barely sharing it (at least from what i've seen) i feel deeply that chaos is a town member that keeps their reads secret from everyone until it's relevant / important enough to be game changing, and they need to at least share some of those reads, because they might get fucked and it would just be another waste for town. i feel deeply that chaos is a town member that keeps their reads secret from everyone until it's relevant / important enough to be game changing
^^if this isnt the case at all, then we just vote them and see if there are any weird reactions from other town members to identify possible scum partners it might make sense for a protective role to work using a townpool of potential targets, but it does not make sense to arbitrarily shove every player who was active early-game into said pool. being active in gamestart is not grounds for being town. i'm also a little confused at what ohsnapa's point here is? i don't see any risks you can associate with trying being friendly to the rest of town other than what happens when said friendliness seems faked (like in pac's case), and i certainly don't see why it wouldn't make sense for a scum member to try and curry favour with the rest of the pl (key word in this is try. pac was arse at it, town or scum nonetheless) you also have an obligation to re-explain your "cases stacked on me" because from my memory all they add up to is that i wasn't making any dedicated plays earlier in the game, which while true, doesn't really scream out to me as something definitively scummy |
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