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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Nov 2, 2017 5:24:10 GMT
Oh you're right, I forgot. Discussion hurts town.
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 6:18:54 GMT
Man.. wonder how OP this could be if it was OC..
All the way, how much I had waited for this game to start.
Alright guys, here's the masterplan.
(This is assuming that two people can use the same ability)
Not more than a maximum of 3(or 4 if you want, since the scum is 4 in number) should ever be on a wagon.
Why?
The best investigative role we have on our hand is Tallier.
Tallier - Checks the amount of Mafia-aligned players on the last lynch
I am assuming this clears why I expect 3/4 people only lynching someone. Yes, I'm aware of the fact that if we get zero scum with like 5 or so lynches on someone, it would more or less be a big win for us. But get this - what if there's one scum in like, six people? And that is why I believe that instead of getting vague results, it would be for our best bet to get go for going with un-vague process.
Q: What of the person whom I am telling to become Tallier is scum?
A: I quite anticipated this. And this is why, we will have two talliers per night. Yet there, there are odds of both of them being scum, but yet again, the odds of this happening is low. And one more thing, one of the tallier will be one of those who are on the wagon.
Q: Roleblocker/Kill?
A: Remember that the town consists of nine people, while the scum consists of only three. We have MUCH more actions than what the scum could do. Now for that, Rolestopper and Doctor. I won't lead over the fact that I would rolestop or doctor someone, but I'm just going to post this here so that scum could enjoy WIFOM.
Q: Bus Driver/Bunker?
A: One advantage of a Tailler is that Tailler does not target anyone specifically. (I could be wrong about this, but logically this is how it should be.) Since this is there, bus driver, bunker and other such roles cause no fault in Tallier's inspect.
Q: Lawyer/Framer?
A: One thing which will bug us. This is one thing which is going to rise problems for us. There are no full-proof counters for this, only things like roleblockers and such. But yet again, this would mean that scum would have to use one of their action to protect their member, instead of using actions like Vanillaiser and such.
Also, there's still chances that different people using the same action would be OP, since multiple scum using Vanillaiser is OP.
I have tried to bold stuff for TL;DR.
Questions? Post here.
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Nov 2, 2017 6:48:39 GMT
Q: Lawyer/Framer? A: One thing which will bug us. This is one thing which is going to rise problems for us. There are no full-proof counters for this, only things like roleblockers and such. But yet again, this would mean that scum would have to use one of their action to protect their member, instead of using actions like Vanillaiser and such. The fool-proof counter would be to have someone use Enabler on Lawyer/Framer and then die. I'm not sure how long Enabler lasts or if Roleblocker can stop Enabler, so that might be a problemo. If Switch unswitches Enabler that would also suck. |
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Post by Fenrir on Nov 2, 2017 6:50:39 GMT
Oh you're right, I forgot. Discussion hurts town. "Hey scum, here's an exact list of the things you should work around when deciding your actions night one." By the way cseel, if you could do more than like a post it'd be appreciated. |
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Post by Fenrir on Nov 2, 2017 6:51:45 GMT
On a skim, all of Champ's post seems accurate albeit NAI. I'm at 6% battery, so I have to wait before giving it a stronger look.
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Post by VigilanteVigoroth on Nov 2, 2017 7:07:45 GMT
Unlynch Lynch ScorrchingTheaph
Why are you constantly mentioning how scum could counter your strategies. Why would mentioning the switch help anyone other than scum
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Post by Bomb Moss on Nov 2, 2017 7:12:03 GMT
Because Mafia probably aren't ***s unless the team has me in it.
Although I agree with Champ's plan, it ties up scum really well.
Vote ScorchingTheaph
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Nov 2, 2017 7:20:46 GMT
Oh you're right, I forgot. Discussion hurts town. "Hey scum, here's an exact list of the things you should work around when deciding your actions night one." "Hey town, here's an exact list of the things you should work around when deciding your actions night one." Why would mentioning the switch help anyone other than scum I mentioned Switch so we don't do something dumb like Hider circle. |
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Nov 2, 2017 7:59:10 GMT
Are multiple players allowed to use the same action?
Yes.
Can the Mafia use an action while using their factional kill?
Yes.
Can the Switch turn on roles disabled by Enablers dying?
Switches will only disable this game.
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Post by VigilanteVigoroth on Nov 2, 2017 8:04:44 GMT
“The fool-proof counter would be to have someone use Enabler on Lawyer/Framer and then die. I'm not sure how long Enabler lasts or if Roleblocker can stop Enabler, so that might be a problemo. If Switch unswitches Enabler that would also suck.”
Why post about your foolproof counter, and then explain to scum how to work around your foolproof counter in the same post? It’s just filler if you are doing that
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 8:15:13 GMT
Q: Lawyer/Framer? A: One thing which will bug us. This is one thing which is going to rise problems for us. There are no full-proof counters for this, only things like roleblockers and such. But yet again, this would mean that scum would have to use one of their action to protect their member, instead of using actions like Vanillaiser and such. The fool-proof counter would be to have someone use Enabler on Lawyer/Framer and then die. I'm not sure how long Enabler lasts or if Roleblocker can stop Enabler, so that might be a problemo. If Switch unswitches Enabler that would also suck. I am not going to sacrifice someone. Though yes, your post reminds me of the switch we can use. Aaaand it reminds me of the fact that scum could use switch on Tallier. But since we know that, does scum seriously think we will go with the plan? One more thing, one of the players MUST be a switch on Vanilliazer. Vanillia(s/z)er is the biggest threat to us. If we don't switch it, the whole scum group could vanilliase us, basically vanillaising three people per night. And lastly to post something non-NAI, I'm aware of the fact that through a good placement of WIFOM, a player asking people to be a switch on Vanillaizer can be easily interpreted as scum. Feel free to say so, I can't even deny that it is scummy. But y'all know better that someone or the other had ought to mention this. |
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 8:19:55 GMT
Why post about your foolproof counter, and then explain to scum how to work around your foolproof counter in the same post? It’s just filler if you are doing that I'm going to defend ScorrchingTheaph here. VigilanteVigoroth, how I view ScorrhingTheaph's post here is a post which conveys self-consciousness and being vary of one's own actions. In one's view, yes, it is filler, but I still view it as his attempt to create a foolproof method to my strategy. Yet again, it is just us viewing it from different angles. Cheers. |
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 8:39:25 GMT
I do suggest that we stop doing things like the above so scum has a little to work with as possible when it comes to anticipating the town's actions. Kinda downvoting this. As a matter of fact, we know that any plan which is not foolproof / almost foolproof is ought to fail. Your points for not discussing any plans could include the fact that scum would have to figure out the plans and the possibilities of ours, instead of just using the loopholes we figured out in our plan. This reason cannot be simply scraped off and I would have accepted it, but the fact that this underestimates scum simply changes my opinion. Simply the fact that you too, could be scum, and I can for sure say that you would have figured all our plans without us saying anything. Or probably that's how good of a player I view you.Not only this, but I see much more advantages in discussing the plans. Firstly, one could be seen over the fact that I noticed switch, which had totally slipped my mind and that I was reminded of by ScorrchingTheaph, in one way or less, thus discussing the plans can help us come up with a much smarter and better plan. Secondly, discussing with other members can help us discover those who may purposely try to go with the loopholes or try not to gamesolve, the typical way of finding scum, since discussing plans is the best place where we can discover scum. Lastly, the simple fact that I can't think of any strategy which could be played alone here, and that we need to properly utilise all the nine town members, and not just be a freelancer. Also, I'm going to take the bait for the N1 kill probably after writing such long posts. Don't worry, I've got another plan for D2 as a will ready with me. |
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 8:48:14 GMT
Two more things, I must add.
1] If you're in a rush / care too less about this game, I got ya. I am purposely bolding stuff in my posts for important points. My bold may be kinda off topic and may not be the best thing to bold in the post, but I'm still trying to bold the important things you should read.
2] It would be pretty funny if scum believed that all my plans are going to work. I mean, there are much, much more loopholes in existence then you can think off. Why am I saying? WIFOM. So wait, there ARE loopholes in my plan? Maybe. At this point, I'm just applying WIFOM for scum.
You got the red pill for you thinking that people will actually use Tallier.
You got the blue pill for you thinking that people are smart enough to apply WIFOM and not use Tallier.
And on a side note, scum will for obvious reasons choose the red pill because pretty sure nobody as scum would take a risk.
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Nov 2, 2017 8:53:26 GMT
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Post by Jodie Whittaker on Nov 2, 2017 9:07:21 GMT
Ok I had a read of the last 2 pages
How do you plan to go about a circle plan? Just person next to you?
Also even though epic creepers nl was really dumb the 3 lynches came really fast.
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Post by Snaq ◢ ◤ on Nov 2, 2017 9:13:57 GMT
Announcement: Oracle was added to the rolelist! It is extremely unlikely I'll add another role, but this was a role that was originally in, but removed due to redundancy. However, there is a critical difference with Journalist that would make it unfair to exclude.
Also if you haven't seen it, a FAQ has been added to the first posts. Here I'll answer your questions about the mechanics of the roles.
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 9:17:27 GMT
Anyways in terms of night actions, I suggest that we all use some sort of investigative action, with effort being made to not pick similar targets.
Also we can look into circling, I glanced at a couple roles that can let us get a good n1 circle. One of the very few big weakness of simple-inspection is Lawyer/Framer. Though yes, we have our switch, and the big advantage of having nine players. I won't outright say 'no other investigation being used pls ty', and instead of give a thumbs up to investigative. I'm aware of the fact that there are a ton of powerful counters to investigative but I can say this one thing for sure - we have far too many investigative roles and town to mafia ratio for the the mafia to predict what investigative role we will actually use. Though I can't say that I will upvote the circle idea. I can't really come up with a good explanation, but I can guess that scum can easily come up with circle counters or that we can't come up with a perfect explanation, but things like bus drivers can just literally disturb the circle. And one more thing. Spotlight on this scum role: Screamer. The best f*cker of all our plans. Screamer - Prevents roles from getting a resultYes. It will just prevent the host from giving any result to our actions. Seriously, this evil thing can literally spoil everything. The second most dangerous role after Vanilliazer. And thus I'm going to further get scumreads by screaming (heh, got the pun?) that we NEED to Switch the Screamer or say bye to all investigative. |
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Post by Champ1604 on Nov 2, 2017 9:28:32 GMT
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Post by ForgotToFlush on Nov 2, 2017 9:59:25 GMT
God do I really have to read all this shit.
Uhh response....soon?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 10:15:13 GMT
Ok I had a read of the last 2 pages How do you plan to go about a circle plan? Just person next to you? Also even though epic creepers nl was really dumb the 3 lynches came really fast. Yeah, you just target the person next to you with whatever action you're gonna use. I also agree with the quick EC bw, will add on later. Don't really have much to say tbh. about 3], although Mafia can target and kill at the same time, they can't hide and kill at the same time, meaning 3] is still a possible plan. I think that a circle plan is most effective in finding scum/using actions imo. Althought EC nling was quite questionable, the BW on him was quite weird; and really quickly too. Imo 2 lynches should have enough, since he could have a good explanation or something of why he NL'd. (but not yet, since he hasn't said anything since) I would like to see why EC explain why he NL'd. I have to brb, will post later if I have anything else to say |
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Post by ScorrchingTheaph on Nov 2, 2017 10:33:30 GMT
I also think that 2 lynches would be the optimal number for Tallier today, instead of 3 or 4 as champ proposed. This way, we either get 2 confirmed town, 2 confirmed mafia, or an easy 50/50. (Later in the game when we have info/reads we can put different people on the wagon)
Having 2 players on the wagon also dissuades scum from lying about an inspect. If a crafty scum boi wants to lie about the tallier inspect and both players on the lynch are town, the scum boi can not lie as it would out themselves and a 1-1 trade is beneficial for town. If both players on the lynch are mafia, scum boi has to bus at least one of them, or risk immediately losing 2 members if one of the players on the lynch is outed. If there is one mafia and one town, the scum boi has a slightly lower risk of losing 2 players if he lies and decides not to bus.
Announcement: My favorite role was added to the rolelist! It is extremely unlikely that I'll be using another role, since this was a role that I wanted in. I would appreciate if someone unblocked me tonight since I have a cunning plan. However, there is a critical drawback with it that will cost me my life.
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Post by BoredGames on Nov 2, 2017 16:56:58 GMT
OK, so reading 3 pages of discussion is fun.
1) The EC policy was a very strange and undeserving thing imo -Yes the nl was questionable but for 3 people to automatically just turbo him... that seems a bit off. But I think we should just class this as a d1 turbo (EC pls tell us ur thought process behind the nl)
2+3) The age old debate on weather to circle or not. Let me address the hider circle first, and i'm gonna have to down vote this. Purely because of switch, because (correct me if i'm wrong) switch on hider + vannilerizer would ruin that plan instantly, along with town as well . Circling in itself isn't a bad idea, it is just that it requires a lot of cooperation to make a circle that cannot be broken by the mafia, which ultimately does ruin circles.
4) Champ's plans with scorching's imput. I want to question something about talliers, is it always the people on the lynch that was successful or do the talliers have to choose the person with lynch votes on. E.g: if let's say 5 people were on player A, and 3 on Player B and 3 on Player C, would talliers just get the result for player A or could they also choose players B and C instead. Because if it does work like that, then surely redirection roles can just redirect it to someone who had no votes on them, making the tallier useless. Yes we have means to stop that, but mafia also have means to stop our counters to the redirection plans (if talliers don't work like in the example then this is just useless ig).
Also I am heavily against the use of seraph knight whatsoever, along with any day action roles . Seraph Knight is a garbage role that no town should pick, and all the day actions seem capable to screw over town, so anyone that does use day action roles (along with others we have pointed out) should immediately be scum read imo
/me is ready for the whole of my post to be debunked
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Post by VigilanteVigoroth on Nov 2, 2017 18:15:09 GMT
What’s wrong with Seraph knight? Am I misreading the role?
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aknolan
Bodyguard
Aknolan the Unoriginal
Posts: 165
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Post by aknolan on Nov 2, 2017 18:32:26 GMT
tagging me to get me to talk is nice and all but unless there's something you specifically want to ask me, assume I'm at school and that's why I haven't done anything yet. I get the idea and all but it's kind of annoying to get on after a very long day and see someone telling me I should be saying more when I was at school the entire time.
Anyways, for now I want to say that I apologize for today as I am exhausted right now, but I will try and say something meaningful and hopefully I'll be able to do more later.
So basically the point I want to make is that if we want to do something we can't really tell specific people to do something. The mafia can easily block them or kill them or do some bus driving shenanigans. Whatever plans we make, have to be more like options for people to use during the night, or we need to have so many plans that the mafia can't possibly stop them all.
I hope that makes sense and again, I apologize for this. I'll try to rest and hopefully I'll be able to do more later.
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